You know I never thought of how the Hide side of the story wasn’t told. I played Warcraft 3, I knew it, and it just never clicked that we never had a character speak of how he tried to wipe us out. That he planned on assassinating Warchief Thrall under the guise of a parlay.
Would have been nice to throw that in the Kul’Tirans faces, even if they refused to believe it.
I mean, if I’m being generous, I might think that Blizzard believed that WC3 Reforged would be a massive success and everyone who plays WoW would pick it up and know the whole story … but even in that case, wouldn’t you think they’d add some teaser dialogue like “You don’t know what you’re talking about” from Horde characters?
And if I’m being less generous, I might think that Blizzard was originally planning on retconning WC3 to make Daelin look better and for his death to retroactively become the very first black mark against Thrall’s new Horde. I’m probably being over-paranoid in thinking that, but given the way things have gone over the last few expansions, I don’t think it’s out of the question.
Don’t forget that his genocidal attempt to defoliate all of Durotar was indirectly the root cause of the Cataclysm faction war
Well, indirectly genocidal–as I recall, he cut down all the trees to build his fortress, not for the express purpose of making Durotar uninhabitable. But he planned to use that fortress to launch a military expedition to wipe out the orcs, so six of one…
Fans have argued Daelin being sympathetic for years. Hard not to considering how morally dark the horde was during the second war. The story still acknowledges him as being in the wrong. He’s just not leader of triple k levels of evil.
I get why Horde fans view him as the racist dad who doesn’t want his kid hanging out with different people. But there’s also that element of a ww2 vet who doesn’t think the Germans have changed. Especially when there are escaped war criminals among them.
It gives lipservice to him being wrong, but thematically he has been validated several times over at this point. Blizz has written things to the point where Race is now analogous to morality and virtue. Horde races are by default portrayed as more prone to evil to their Alliance counterparts. With decreasing comparison from the Alliance side, who at this point its a absurd anomaly to find someone with even a shade of dirt or grey on them. Like it or not, Blizz has absolutely justified Daelin’s attempt at genocide … and given plenty of ammunition to say that it was the right call. I can’t wait to see them do the same with Yrel and the Lightbound.
Its a little awkward on some underlying thematic and subtext levels. Truly consider how of the two “Alliance Regrets” Anduin could pull out of his butt, Dailin was validated in BfA … and there are real signs of an Arthas redemption in SLs. The Blues can’t even have “imagined” dirt on them anymore.
I saw him as the person who just couldn’t let his hatred wane and listen to those who tried to make him see reason. Yes, I understand where Daelin was coming from completely.
To the day he died, my father, a Pacific WW2 vet, hated the Japanese. He was grumpy with me for quite some when I bought a Honda Accord for my first car. Didn’t matter that it was made in Ohio. It was a Honda and therefor Japanese.
A little surprised this thread is still going but not disappointed.
I said earlier in the thread that there wasn’t much that the Horde could do that would give the OP what he was looking for. I may have an idea that could give the Horde a feel good moment and restore the Horde’s moral compass. The only problem is that suggesting it will cause some of my pointed eared friends to not so much hurt me as have me drawn and quartered. Oh well, here it is.
The Horde needs to save Sylvanas.
As you light the torches hear me out. I am not suggesting forgiving Sylvanas, or forgetting what she did, or breaking some external control someone has over her. What I am suggesting is that once Sylvanas is defeated the Horde attempts to convince her she is wrong and that she needs to right that wrong; and to keep her alive long enough to achieve that.
My reasoning for this is because the Horde has done this before. Grom Hellscream was one of the Orcs who literally condemned his entire species to demonic enslavement and his relapse nearly did so again. And the Horde saved him. It is part of the Horde’s core identity to take those who would otherwise be seen as monsters or who have in fact committed monstrous acts and give them a place. Saving Sylvanas is a chance for the Horde to return to that identity.
Now if you will excuse me I will be over in that corner waiting to be maimed as I deserve for suggesting this.
Yeah…all I’m going to say is that’s the worst idea ever. Sylvanas doesn’t need to be saved or convinced she’s wrong. You can’t convince someone who thinks they’re the victim of that anyway.
… So? Doesn’t mean the game couldn’t still make him look better. To the point of blotting out the actual reasons for his death.
Oh I completely agree it is a horrible idea. But, in looking for a feel good moment for the Horde I really couldn’t come up with anything else that would address what the OP said he was looking for. This is the moment that needs to happen to start moving past BFA. If you think I’m wrong I completely respect that. Please tell me what would work better for a feel good moment for the Horde that moves past BFA.
The two I can think of is Baine growing a actual spine and start standing up for his people and stop putting alliance interests above the hordes and for to Thrall stop moping around and start being the badass shaman we all fell in love with.
And for the love of all that is horde, can blizz let them start kicking some genuine butt for once? Let Thrall and Co go ape on the Maw for a change.
As fun as it is watching Tyrande completely wreck the place, thrall needs to show off his shaman powers again.
Perhaps have Thrall and Baine work together to draw on the spiritual side of Shamanism to free souls from the Maw. As a result of their efforts they not only free an uncountable number of trapped souls but they also cut the Jailors forces in half. Making it possible to launch a major attack on the Maw with forces from the Covenent’s.
Based on what besides Elesana levels of paranoia?
Why does it matter if he looks better? Daelin is one of the few legitimate grey characters in the series. Wars screw with people’s heads. If you want an alliance devil, talk about Blackmoore, or maybe Garithos.
You yourself have said you have a personality prone to guilt trips (at least I think you said something to that effect.). I don’t think blizzard wants horde players to think Daelin is right. Of course alliance fans are going to think this way, but their story still shows him in the wrong.
The problem with this story is that the horde are written as baby eating villains. The solution isn’t to make the alliance eat babies, it’s to stop the horde from doing it. The horde needs more Daelins, not Orc Hitlers.
Ehhhhhh he’s definitely on the black side of grey if he’s grey at all. It was very much his intent to either enslave or extinct the orcs on Azeroth simply because they were orcs. His intent matters even if, uh, he was proven right more often than not since then.
Because to him the Orcs were nothing but pure evil. That’s all he had ever seen of them. You don’t blame someone for wanting demons dead, right? Well to him they were demons, and for good reason.
I mean Tbh the horde in the 1st and 2nd was really didn’t show Daelen anything other than that, I mean the man lost one of his children to the hordes red dragon riders. I can see why he paints with a broad brush on that, not saying his was right since Thrall was trying to change the horde, but the man was a veteran of those wars and only ever saw the worse of the orcs of course he wasn’t going to forgive and forget.
Based off the fact that Uther, Jaina, and Calia are all sitting around conveniently in SLs. His Mentor, his Lover, his Sister. Based off the fact that the Bastion cinematic featured heavily Uther’s relation with Arthas. Based off the fact that the end of the Bastion Campaign (Spoilers) has Uther admitting that what he did to Arthas was revenge and not justice. Then we have Anduin, who had several (almost scene for scene) parallels with Arthas in BfA … being the only one still locked away in the Maw. If there was anyone who would meet Arthas first, it be him.
So … lets call it a safe bet.
You misunderstand–I think Daelin is already presented as morally grey. Making him look better would be whitewashing him, and the cynical part of me thinks that the WC3 rewrites might have done that. And I also think that from an in-world Horde perspective, he should be a straight-up enemy that you have no qualms about fighting and no regrets for having killed.