There’s also the whole point where Saurfang throughout the meeting felt a distinct want to challenge Syl, and was begrudgingly playing along with her train of thought till he was convinced.
I just want the Tauren to go back to their previous characterization of being extremely kind but death on two legs if you antagonize them. They’ll never start the conflict but they’ll end it.
2 Likes
Back to the topic at hand, and I’ve mentioned this before, but in SLs I think its just a good idea to remain small-scale and focus on character issues. Get back to basics in some of the most fundamental ways possible. The few characters we have representing us in the SLs that are likely to come back with us all have glaring character deficits that prevent them from being the leaders the Horde and their individual peoples need. So … lets just address them for now.
- Thrall needs resolution with Garrosh (and all that encompasses), as well as needs to find pride in who and what he was born and entrusted to be. A great MU Orc chieftain. And, as a byproduct of that, his elemental mojo should thus come back in spades. Luckily, with Garrosh being in Revendreath and Draka in her current state being in Maldraxxus … the opportunity is there to address these issues in a very tangible manner.
- Vol’jin has less character issues to overcome (outside of being dead), and more an issue of presentation. His entire BfA story was gated behind mythics and raids, and his entire SLs story is gated behind a Covenant. It seems his current Loa path is potentially building him up to be the person he needs to be to fulfill Sen’jin’s prophecy … but there needs to be tangible results in SLs. He also needs to remain a Horde Troll staple just like Bwon does.
- Baine has 3 issues: 1) He’s been made too much the accessory for Anduin; 2 ) He’s far too on the peace side of the spectrum, even for a Tauren; 3) He’s like most Warriors in WoW these days, pretty weak. People forget that Cairne was supposed to be as averse to conflict as his son currently is prior to meeting Thrall, so growth can happen on that front. And luckily, the current SLs settup does have to opportunity to address all of these issues with Baine. With Anduin being safely locked away in Torghast; with Baine having his own weakness repeatedly thrown in his face; with Huln Highmountain chilling in Ardenweald.
Yes, I know it its simultaneously low-key and ambitious to expect such character developments with Blizz’s history, but I do think that at least functionally we need to get these three to the people their peoples and the Horde need them to be before we leave the SLs. So we can move on to focusing on the vast ocean of other reps who desperately need TLC. Get them all growth and powerups to reflect that … so we can move on and away from them for a while.
3 Likes
This. OMG, so much this. Quoted for extreme truth because it needs to be repeated.
13 Likes
So what should be done about it?
Are there any characters you’re willing to sacrifice?
What if new, nonheroic Alliance characters are created and allowed to drive the story?
9 Likes
They were never so, but oky…
They certainly promised us that this would be a thing (4/26/18):
3 Likes
They promise a lot of things.
I remember when the perpetrator of the burning of teldrassil was supposed to not be the most obvious culprit, and I remember when the devs promised Sylvanas wasn’t getting the Garrosh treatment.
12 Likes
We don´t have to go too far, just go back and check the whole “Turalyon and Alleria torture a civilian Orc mother” in Shadows Rising. Blizz had the writer literally doing EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING to justify their actions when those involved a Horde citizen (it basically villain batted a civilian Orc mom representing the victim in the scenario, to whitewash the evil actions to be taken by the two Alliance heroes… Roux had to write the Orc *literally /spatting over Alleria and acting overall rude AF, by default “asking for the torture”).
I rather the devs finally overcome their “Thrall´s got mommy issues” fetish. If any Orc could had been used to /slap Thrall´s perma trauma out of him regarding his chieftain abilities, that was Doomhammer. Cause Doomhammer actually fell from grace and got back up once again. He´s the right person to tell him: “man, get over the QQ and take back your leadership by the horns, failing once is not the end of the world and our people NEEDS it´s chieftain back”.
Good for you man, but we both know we players would end up playing the price regardless.
14 Likes
This. Nobody wants him to be Warchief again (GOD no), what we want is for him to take pride in who he was born and entrusted to be. He can be a dad and husband AND be the MU Orc Chieftain he’s supposed to be. Cairne and Vol’jin (I think) juggled those roles; every Orc Chieftain proceeding him did it; he can do it. His family and Go’el is nothing more than a mopey excuse he’s been using.
God I hope Draka kicks his butt a bit. She starts shining quite a bit as a Dutiful, Intelligent General in the Necrolord Campaign. With Thrall constantly moping about feeling guilted into his duty … I hope she rips his fantasized “perfect mother” vision of her he has apart and really tears into him.
1 Like
Uh. I do.
I also know a great many people personally who want Thrall to be warchief again.
4 Likes
You want him to fill that role because you feel that role needs to be filled. Which it doesn’t. The only thing the Warchief title has going for it is player nostalgia, it has no cultural relevance to any other races but the Orcs. And even for them its doesn’t go back more than 38 years, and 5 out of 7 Warchiefs left their people in ruins. You can complain about what Blizz did with that position … but the damage is now more than done to it.
Nostalgia is a powerful thing, but it should only hold so much sway over the story.
Yeah. I don’t personally want Thrall back as warchief because I feel he’s been too much ruined by the narrative at this point, but it’s not fair or accurate to say NOBODY wants it.
And that has a pretty strong whiff of “You think you do, but you don’t.”
3 Likes
I would prefer if no one’s characters had to be sacrificed, Alliance or Horde. I think we can have a good story without it. A better one, even.
I don’t want a repeat of mop, or bfa, ever again.
But I guess if I had to choose one character, it would be Turalyon. But again, I would prefer if we didn’t repeat this narrative of having one side go bad.
Look if you want him its fine, but lets not pretend part of that isn’t coming from the expectation that the Horde NEEDs a Warchief. The Warchief position has been removed, which considering the history Blizz has attached to it … is probably a good thing. So to want Thrall to be Warchief, means you believe the Horde needs one.
Which … it really does not.
Yes. I do. The council is a poor decision, and Blizzard isn’t even sticking by it: Baine makes the final decision on every decision until he disappears. He’s Warchief in everything but name.
8 Likes
Baine made one logistics decision regarding the Vulpera, because the Horde was already failing to provide for its current allies. Its hardly him being in charge, its him being placed in a really bland administrative position where he’s catering to the needs of each Horde participant. He’s been given the ultimate fetch quest responsibility. He’s hardly “Warchief”.
All the Vulpera needed to do to earn an equal seat in a World Power table was prove they were worth the limited asset investment. It didn’t take that much.
EDIT: And as a note, if your SO convinced that Baine’s already the ad-hoc Warchief because of a single questline why on earth would you want to threaten making that official?
2 Likes
Ya know, I can’t tell if you’re simping for Kakashi, or for Obito.
As a matter of fact, we could argue it´s the opposite: the Horde DOES need a constructive and positive representation of the WARCHIEF seat of power, cause let´s be honest, THAT was pretty much part of the appeal the Horde got since their WC3 incarnation (it wasn´t only the idea of monster looking people on their path to redemption, it was too the idea of them being lead into it by a charismatic and non evil political leader A.K.A. the Warchief. It was the idea the WARCHIEF as an entity didn´t necessarily had to fulfill an absolute negative connotation, but actually go 180° and represent a positive one for these people that got damaged thanks to it. That Droité goes side to side with the whole “WC3 Horde in their long way to redemption” narrative.
I personally disdain terribly the Council idea not only because it seems something much better designed for the Alliance narrative (they´re the ONU council in here) and alien to what I loved about the Horde in the first place, but because it feels like total defeat (there I said it). Writers creating a pseudo Council full of weakminded characters feels like them conceding defeat in the whole idea of the Horde in the first place (I almost can hear the “see? Hurde could only become “decent” when they started copying the Alliance stuff!!” and that´s nothing short of revolting for me as a Horde fan).
Also, Council is deffinitely NO guarantee of no more villain battings. Heck, with a council now the risk is to get SEVERAL characters villain batted / stupid batted simultaneously and in a much more direct way.
Which came as the worst show of “political power” for the Council ever made. How can I take the “Council” seriously when all of them are MIA and just one member suddenly starts making the choices (worse of all, when his choices get ridiculed and exposed as terribad while at it?).
As someone who LOVED the inclusive Warchief spin of MoP, I rather get some other race in place, not the same Orc as always. Heck, in the absence of Vol´jin I´d love the Regent, but I don´t think the Horde playerbase is mentaly prepared to have an elf warchief; not after whjat the devs did to Sylvanas.
2 Likes
Honestly the lack of Horde, anything really, has left me feeling fairly disconnected from the plot. I’m still enjoying SL for what it is but outside the vague threat of death coming for Azeroth (which it always is in one form or another) this very much feels like it’s own story taking place in it’s own world only tangentially related to Warcraft.
Granted that may be because my Covenant is Maldraxxus and I don’t really care about the Azerothian Barons. They’re fine for the purposes of the story but I never held any particular reverence for those characters. Hell Vashj is the only one I’ve had any prior interaction with and that was just smacking her around for mog items.
9 Likes