Ultimately it’s just part 2 of BFA’s story, having been built on its foundation. Why would it be any better when the whole thing hinges on how this expansion went?
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That’s pushing it. Even at their best, Blizzard often jumped around only a few characters and ignored established development. They would also promote characters at the expense of others because they don’t know any form of character development outside of the Worf effect and undermining another character to make the chosen one look good.
WoW’s comic-style development highlighted the aspects of comic stories that makes me despise the genre.
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Incoming are a few more quotes–thanks to @Etheldald for collecting them on this thread:
Interview with production director John Hight, May 3, 2018:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-warcraft/wow-battle-for-azeroth-races
At the end of Legion players were arguably closer than ever before as they fought a huge, common threat – why was the decision made to change the pace and pit players against one another?
Well, I think you hit the nail on the head, it was that enemy that actually brought those factions together. It wasn’t as though they were heading to this wonderful kumbaya peace – there were tensions at the beginning of Legion. But the presence of the Legion itself was so potentially devastating for all of Azeroth, the factions just didn’t have time to explore what really happened – whether the Horde really betrayed the Alliance or not. Now that that big enemy has been defeated, I think the Alliance are returning to a point where they can explore that thinking of, ‘We felt betrayed, we lost our king’. And, of course, Anduin is coming into his own as a young man – he certainly misses the presence of his father, but he recognises his responsibility as king, and one of the first things on his mind is to get some redemption for what happened.
What’s the reaction from players been so far?
Well first off, we haven’t told anyone how this expansion’s going to end, so don’t make too many assumptions! It’s fun to speculate but we’re not going to tell you what’s going to happen until the last update to the expansion occurs. We have plenty of interesting and exciting twists and turns in store for you.
But I think in general the reception has been pretty good. It’s funny, we plan out these stories and we bring in the team in groups in the early stages and run them through the story and talk about the features we’d like to do in the expansion so we’re all on the same page. I think the team at first were a little unsure about where we were going. We had a lot of, ‘So it’s going to be Horde vs Alliance again?’. They were concerned that everyone would think that the whole game had become PvP. We had to make it clear that no, it’s really going to be about the conflict itself.
And the fun part is that we’re telling two completely different storylines. In Legion, you had the choice to go to whatever levelling zone you wanted, but whether you were Horde or Alliance you experienced a lot of the same content, and the majority of the content was designed so that it could be played by either faction. But in Battle for Azeroth, there are distinct storylines for the Horde and for the Alliance.
Has it been tricky to convince players that isn’t just a PvP expansion?
I don’t think so. I think the cinematic that the team produced really tells you the potential of what this game could be. When we showed that at Blizzcon and the cheers went up, I think everyone really kind of got it. For me, when I first saw that, even just the storyboards, I thought, ‘Man, now I get it, now I can see what the potential of this story could be’.
But I think overall, it’s been a positive reception. I don’t get a lot by people saying the battle between factions is a bad idea, I think people are fairly excited. It does hark back to the early days of WoW, and even Warcraft itself. A lot of these stories were told through that lens, so I know people are going to be excited when they get to play the game. Even the sceptics are going to find that this was a pretty good creative choice.
You mentioned faction-specific content and how BfA has the most faction-specific content of any expansion. How tricky is it to ensure players on both sides have a positive experience and one that’s equally enjoyable?
We have two members of our design team with a responsibility for the storyline for their particular faction. They sit with each other and communicate with each other on a daily basis. Of course, there’s some degree of one-upmanship that happens within our design team, but I think they’re very conscious of that and want to make sure there’s a steady balance. But we also don’t want to take an idea that’s on the Horde side and just duplicate it for the Alliance side, we want factions to have their own unique flavour, and want our designers to feel they have some agency to craft the stories themselves.
And at the end of the day, we play the game. I think the team has played both Legion and this expansion more than any of the work in the past. A lot of it comes from the way that we’re now building the game. In the past a lot of the stuff would come together fairly late, so we would get to see the work integrated into the game at around the same time that players would when we go to alpha. But now we’re seeing the content way, way in advance of that, and that means there’s plenty of opportunities for us to catch things like the Alliance not having a particularly cool feature, or the pacing being weak on the Horde side. The fact that we can do this earlier on without having to do a lot of rework is important, and that’s been one of the things that’s been great in helping us turn out more content more frequently, and to create more content than we have in the past. We can do more upfront planning than we have before.
Inevitably, there has to be a winner and a loser. How will you ensure that players on the losing side don’t feel hard-done-by?
Well again, we’re not going to tell you how this all ends! There are going to be individual scenarios and battles where there’s a winner and a loser for sure, but those are the battles and not the war. We’re being very careful come the end of this that you’re not going to feel like you’ve chosen the wrong faction and that you’re with the losing side. But there will be times where you certainly have to pick yourself back out of the dust and prepare for the next battle. But that’s part of what’s going to create the tension between your faction and the opposing side.
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Really? Must be some pretty loose evaluations if that’s the case.
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This thread just keeps on giving. I’m saving it offline in case some janitor nukes it.
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Is this ever cleared up more broadly in game? I feel like it’s an important point that never gets brought up outside the rogue class campaign. Assuming that the 110 content is supposed to be chronologically after all the leveling content, then no one would have known about the Deathlord thing until after everything that went down at the beginning of Stormheim. But just like so many other things in Stormheim, I don’t remember it being addressed in the game or really anywhere else.
I feel like I would remember even a throwaway comment along the lines of “hey we lost on the Broken Shore because we got tricked” leveling through Legion as many times as I did. And on Horde side, maybe a missed “we lost our Warchief because we trusted compromised Alliance intel” opportunity? Or maybe I missed it? Dunno my brain already signed off for the night.
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I leveled multiple Alliance and Horde characters in Legion, and the Shaw/Dreadlord thing is never mentioned once. I didn’t even know about it until I saw someone mention it on this forum as part of the rogue campaign.
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I think about this quote basically every time I load up WoW.
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Yeah, none of that is really mentioned otherwise, which is why if you’re not a rogue (though arguably, even if you are) the whole Broken Shore remains less a case of the Alliance and Horde failing despite bringing the best they had to the fight, and more like the Alliance and Horde doing everything wrong for no good reason.
I mean, what kind of false intel convinces any person with a functioning cortex that the Burning Legion doesn’t have very many soldiers and thus can be quickly struck down by a surgical strike? How stupid did the factions have to be to show up and be surprised that the Burning Legion brought more guys to the fight than they did? They were defeated because the gigantic army of demons that has an infinite number of soldiers overwhelmed them with…numbers? That blindsided them? Khadgar practically fled the Broken Isles with swarms of demons at his heels, yet somehow his testimonial was overwritten by the idea that there was a minimal enough demonic presence that they could overpower if they moved quickly?
And why did it seem that nobody bothered to communicate to anyone that the Argent Crusade was going there as well? How did they get there? Where did their fleet wreck/land? Who even told them what was happening and where? Why did they strike out alone? Presumably Khadgar told them the news since he also warned the Alliance and Horde, but if so why were both factions completely surprised to find out the Crusade was even there? Who was actually coordinating this supposedly coordinated assault? Everyone managed to be on the same page in Northrend, but in Legion it seems like nobody even bothered to try making a real plan.
False intel or not, the defeat at the Broken Shore didn’t even make the Burning Legion look threatening. It just made the Alliance, Horde and Argent Crusade all look incompetent.
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Horde and Alliance leaders after crashing on the Broken Shore:
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isn’t there an implication that Sylvanas set up the broken shore being a flop? I can’t remember where I heard it??
Probably.
Remember, Sylvanas was actually the one who planted the Old Gods and gave Azshara Sargeras’ cell number. Pretty sure she’s the one who drove Deathwing bonkers too.
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The funny thing is, it kinda wasn’t. Rewatching the Rogue Order Hall(Shaw) flashback, the Horde/Alliance invasion forces were “hours away” when Detheroc ambushed and replaced him. That means they were already on the way, so the location was predetermined. I guess SI:7 could have said there was a lot of demons there, but wasn’t that the point? What were they going to do, turn the fully mobilized invasion force that was already on the way back and let the Legion do their thing?
The biggest mistake I think about displaying “the trap” was that it appeared the Alliance was winning until Gul’dan summoned in reinforcements. Even if the Legion was caught off guard, if they can just summon in forces like that, it really weakens the whole ‘they were waiting for us.’ What were those demons going to be doing otherwise, playing poker? Sometimes Warcraft’s casual use of magic really breaks tension in the story.
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You might be thinking of this, from Blizzcon 2019:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=296023/the-jailer-is-the-main-villain-of-shadowlands-working-with-sylvanas-since-edge-o
Q: Did the jailer in The Maw see the Legion as a threat which is why Sylvanas worked with Varian?
A: We’ll find out more of her motivations in Shadowlands and that her relationship with the Jailer dates back a bit. Edge of Night story involves this relationship. Working with Varian was a long term strategy in order to get Warchief - had to make allies but now we’re seeing the fruition of that.
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No, I don’t think the Alliance ever found out why she retreated. Which is still why they blame her for Varian’s death.
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Huh. So Alliance players never see or hear about what happens to the Horde.
For the characters never to know sets up an interesting point of tension in the story. For the players not to know, that just sets up toxicity. We’ve already had more than one “Nuh uh Sylvanas DID betray the Alliance” argument on these boards, and I don’t even think learning the truth will do anything to sway anyone’s opinion now. Opinions have hardened too much for that.
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In legion we were in the order halls together. I think its logical to assume that you informed your fellow alliance warriors about broken shore.
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We knew the truth for a while. A lot of us have horde characters, or can look up the horde side. Hasn’t changed the argument.
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Then… why do you argue something that’s wrong?
Why argue the Horde betrayed the Alliance when they were getting killed right off the ridge and damn near routed?
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