"I Feel Lied To," Post-BfA Version

Anduin pops up maybe three times during the expansion, and each time it’s to spout his usual “war is bad and I just want peace” line. Which is the same exact thing he’s been saying since the Cata-era novels when they first started giving him development.

I remember at the BfA announcement they had that slide of important characters, and it was Anduin and Jaina for the Alliance. If anything Anduin had LESS time and character development than he did in Legion. Not that I’m complaining, since I hate the character. But it always seemed weird to me that Horde-side had the ongoing Saurfang questline and also the Vol’jin questline, while there was nothing equivalent for the Alliance. It makes sense now if they originally intended for there to be an Anduin questline and it got cut later on.

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“At the start of the war i thought we were fighting for peace”
I agree that they didn’t saw it in game. Maybe the were considering Lordaeron to be before Teldrasil but there are other options also. An Alliance attack during the prepatch? For that and Lordaeron first they should have change the novel also.
Disagreements if Lordaeron is a good move. Tyrande proposing to go for Darkshore and Anduin insist for Lordaeron only to be saved from Jainas intervention.

Whatever Anduin’s story was supposed to be, it was supposed to take place in Legion. Same with Sylvanas. They both had character pages on the Legion promo site, both of them stating that being thrust into leadership at the time of the largest Legion Invasion of Azeroth would shape them for the future.

For Sylvanas it implied that she was going to learn the lesson of how to be a leader for more than just “her” people, and for Anduin it was how does one continue to fight for peace against a foe who cares not for peace and only wants to burn?

Then the expansion game out and the only thing Sylvanas did was prepare for Shadowlands, Anduin did fudge-all until BfA where he continued to do fudge all except occasionally cheer on Saurfang.

EDIT: Hell, as other people stated, everything about the BfA trailer implies it was written up and during Legion when the plan was to have Sylvanas and Anduin change. Sylvanas on watching as Alliance breaks through and mows down her people, the visible rage as the siege engine approaches, her destroying it and the members of the Horde looking up in awe and then her “For the Horde!” line urging the Horde to push forward. Almost as at the time her arc was for her to have some actual character development and gasp be an actual good Warchief to the entire Horde.

Then Anduin, leading the Alliance on an assault on Lordaeron, the helmet covering his face. A very subtle acknowledgement to Genn stating “Lordaeron will be ours” as if the attack was launched pre-emptively. When the Horde surges, Anduin yells for everyone to push forward and he goes running in cutting down several Horde warriors until he crushes that one orc. Then upon seeing all the death around him, he remembers he spec’d disc and heals his troops and tells them to keep fighting. It looks like he gained the development that while he still wants to be a good little egg, he is now more than willing to fight and kill for it, as a king must do.

Then they released the pre-patch and lolnope Sylvanas is still just as evil as ever. Anduin only goes to Lordaeron to “avenge Teldrassil”. Neither of them changed because they didn’t get story arcs up to that point and hell neither of them changed after Sylvanas just remained evil, Anduin just remained “We can have peace!” guy.

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Here’s another quote for the list of headscratchers. This one is from an interview on April 5, 2019–around the time of Patch 8.2 and exactly a year after the interviews that told us “Sylvanas is not evil” and “Nor will Anduin’s Lordaeron’s attacks be done for justice.”

https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/5/18286344/world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth-patch-8-2-interview

The story up until 8.2 has been focused nearly entirely on red versus blue — the battle between the Horde and Alliance. “There’s been a lot of strong opinions,” says Hazzikostas, “because there are a lot of strong connections to these characters, especially on the Horde side.” Saurfang and Sylvanas, the Battle of Dazar’Alor, and Jaina’s narrative arc are all stories that the team consider successful.


When I ask Hazzikostas about the developer’s intent on putting this on Horde players, and if they think it can go too far, he briefly hesitates.

“It’s a heavy responsibility, and it’s not one that anyone on the team takes lightly,” he says. “Our aim in storytelling is always to evoke emotion. If that goes too far, it can feel exploitative, it can feel like players are caught in a situation they don’t want to be in. We want people to stick around, to play with their friends, and to see the end of the story we’re telling.”

For players, they’ve spent months dealing with the burden of Darnassus. For characters like Tauren druids, or Blood Elf paladins, this can feel like an overwhelming loss of agency. Many Horde players are also concerned because a similar tale played out two expansions ago in Mists of Pandaria , with Garrosh Hellscream. For these players, the second corrupt Warchief in under five years might suggest that the Horde they have been playing under for a decade or more is broken, and not worth defending.

Hazzikostas is aware of the parallels to Garrosh’s story, and he says that the Horde is too.

“There are a couple of references here and there,” he says. “There are more coming. Members of the Horde leadership will remember going down dark paths before.”

He also notes that Garrosh’s motives were different; they were an attempt to restore a lost vision of the Horde at the expense of everything else. Sylvanas’ goals are still unclear, but Hazzikostas notes, “There will not be a trial where she is in chains. Sylvanas is not a character who would find herself in that situation … ever.”

As for player choice, more decisions will come in the future. “It won’t be something we do lightly,” he says. “We do it when the story makes sense, and we do it when there are real consequences and real follow through.”

The team intends to avoid “false” choices, or the illusion of a branching narrative. Hazzikostas also hints at an interesting possibility for the Alliance’s future narrative: “In this case, it felt right for the Horde. Alliance don’t have that same division in their ranks just yet, and there isn’t that same natural point of choice.”

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I wonder if anyone ever told them how not fun it is to be divided against your own faction.

Like super not engaging at all.

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And here’s one for the Alliance players from August 17, 2018–although I suppose this one could still happen in Shadowlands. Still, Danuser sure makes it sound like this is going to be a BfA storyline.

https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2018/8/17/17697560/world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth-interview-blizzard-horde-alliance-wow

“The Alliance has its share of disparity within it as well, and different facets that have bubbled up over the years,” said Danuser. “The Alliance is going to have to realign itself. Especially the Night Elves who lose their home. How are they going to react to this? There’s going to be a real self-examination of what the Alliance is about, and how they want to behave. Do they want to get revenge on the Horde, or do they want to build a better world? That’s a question they need to answer.”

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Ugh those choices horde side amounted to nothing, it was just “Hey don’t worry, just go with it loyalist”…and had no actual consequences what so ever that I can remember.

Aside from I guess one quest where loyalist could be flagged as hostile to rebel and alliance…but tbh that felt more like a reward at that point in my annoyance.

I don’t even remember what the alliance got as a choice…I think they got to name a ship?

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I think this is lowkey annoying since we’ve hit a point where the alliance could argue pretty hard that achieving the first goal will complete the second one, and you’d be pretty hard pressed to find any horde player actually disagree with you on if the alliance should get revenge.
(I guess it just amount to what could you take from the horde really?)

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I have nothing really to add. I just want to bask for a moment in the juxtaposition of these two statements.

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I also particularly take umbrage with the statement that “it felt right for the Horde”. They drove deep wedges into the Horde playerbase and then said “Oh, the players are divided, so that’s how we’ll write them.”

We were supposed to get an expansion about coming together. @Pellex, isn’t there a quote along those lines, that the Horde’s different parts were going to come together or something?

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Storywise they came together. Saurfang entered Ogrimar hailed by all Horde.

I’ve been looking for it, because I wanted to put it on this thread. If anyone has the link, feel free to jump in.

Thanks for this thread, Pellex. We need to keep these things in mind whenever Blizzard talks of current and future plans.

I love that he framed it as a simple binary decision and implied holding Sylvanas and her supporters responsible as the wrong choice.

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It comes from this interview: https://www.wowhead.com/news=286525/polygon-bfa-interview-the-future-of-the-alliance-and-horde

While we’ve had conflicts like the Siege of Orgrimmar, none of those really resolved what the Horde is. Battle for Azeroth is absolutely an opportunity to look at both sides [honorable and evil] that have made up the Horde storylines throughout the years and pull them together.

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I did see that. I thought there was one that specifically mentioned the Forsaken, but that might be my memory playing tricks on me.

Awesome job, Pellex; thank you for taking the time of enabling actual quality control policies onto the company´s product.

… God after reading all the lies and gaslighting put together I wonder why people still gets mad at me when I say this company´s devs are entirely lacking in any professional ethics nor competence. The very fact that they FAIL at something so important like communicating even the most basic things of the very product they´re selling while being a HUGE company with HUGE human & financial resources it´s nothing less than embarrasing and pitiful.

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To be fair, we killed Garrosh in the expansion that followed. So if Sylvanas dies in a quest sometime in SL, then they definitely hit it on the nose.

They were not thinking about story - that’s clear.

Blizzard has not been putting a huge focus on telling cohesive, sensible narratives for some time now. Sure - Legion had some rare gems in it, and I loved that, but I can’t think of BFA as anything other than a deliberate hack job.

They lied to their fans, they baited folks into being aggressively hostile towards players of the opposing faction, and then they threw their hands up and rushed to move onto the next expansion when they realized how low this trash heap hit.

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We got to name Anduin’s new flagship. Which was also the culmination of the Kul Tiran recruitment questline. Wherein we build the greatest ship ever constructed by Kul Tiras, using the rarest of materials, the best shipwright, and the most talented crew…and then immediately hand it over to Stormwind’s navy as a gift to Anduin.

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Yeah. Imagine being a loyal Kul Tiran and the pride of being among the best of the best in your trade. You get chosen by the Proudmoores to man the greatest ship your country has ever produced, and yet you and the rest of your crew get handed over to another nation like cattle to follow and teach your nation’s most precious trade and military secrets to some foreign king and his ilk.

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This. For a long time now I’ve felt that story was barely on the radar, if at all, for Blizzard. The most important aspect was the things that people would keep coming back for AKA pay to play; Raids. Story can be read on WoWhead and discussed anywhere, no sub required, but Raids require the person to be there to get the full experience, not to mention the social interaction.

The story for WoW was never some Shakespeare level affair, but you could at least feel them trying. Now it feels like them just throwing darts at a board of the biggest tropes to use for anything. There is the occasional interesting moment in the main story, but it quickly gets washed away or ends up being dropped entirely. And some side quests can be brilliant, but being side quests they rarely if ever make a lasting impact.

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