"I Feel Lied To," Post-BfA Version

My only hang up there is that Saurfang really didn’t do much until, what, 8.1? Up to then he sat in the cell and that was it. I get that 8.1 is in the early life of the expansion but it was still pretty light on him. I’d argue we saw more of him in the cinematic minute for minute than one would see him actually in game.

The saddest thing is you are right about no one character being able to save it if they were given the spotlight instead. The best characters are arguably the side characters, and if they were thrust into the limelight then chances are they’d be sanded down to be exactly like the old big boys, just to make them fit.

Worst part of all this is that has, in my own opinion at least, gutted the story. WoD with alternate dimensions was a bit of a stretch, but hey, magic and what not. BfA just wasted villains built up for years, made the factions feel stupid or inept or both, all to basically serve as a filler expansion.

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At the end of the day BfA was one big fat lie.

All these interviews and Q&As just leave me broken for WoWs future. Still excited for Shadowlands mostly for its theme, but I’m almost ready to be tuned out for any story it has in store.

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Even ignoring the fact they could rapidly cut down time with reusing models, a completely unique cinematic cgi trailor would only take 6 months to make from scratch.Depending on when they did the rewrites it could have been a few weeks before blizzcon.

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Personally, I’m just sticking with Classic.

:cactus:

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Do you have a link with a timestamp?

Not offhand.
https://soundcloud.com/scott-johnson-27/the-metzen-series-part-03-i-am-content
I think it’s this one.

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Man, this is just bad. Normally I’d probably type something snarky up, but this was essentially false advertising for an expansion that without warning ended up completely different from what they promised and kept promising.

“Wait and see”. Well, I’m tired of it, waiting and seeing and being let down and disappointed. I already wasn’t all that interested in Shadowlands, but now I think I’ll be sticking with Classic for the time being.

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Seeing this all makes me incredibly sad. Horde players were outright lied to, can never make up for Teldrassil, and ended the expansion feeling lost and shameful, down three racial leaders. Feels bad man.
Faction pride. What a bold-faced lie.
I will never trust them when it comes to story again.

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Anduin pops up maybe three times during the expansion, and each time it’s to spout his usual “war is bad and I just want peace” line. Which is the same exact thing he’s been saying since the Cata-era novels when they first started giving him development.

I remember at the BfA announcement they had that slide of important characters, and it was Anduin and Jaina for the Alliance. If anything Anduin had LESS time and character development than he did in Legion. Not that I’m complaining, since I hate the character. But it always seemed weird to me that Horde-side had the ongoing Saurfang questline and also the Vol’jin questline, while there was nothing equivalent for the Alliance. It makes sense now if they originally intended for there to be an Anduin questline and it got cut later on.

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“At the start of the war i thought we were fighting for peace”
I agree that they didn’t saw it in game. Maybe the were considering Lordaeron to be before Teldrasil but there are other options also. An Alliance attack during the prepatch? For that and Lordaeron first they should have change the novel also.
Disagreements if Lordaeron is a good move. Tyrande proposing to go for Darkshore and Anduin insist for Lordaeron only to be saved from Jainas intervention.

Whatever Anduin’s story was supposed to be, it was supposed to take place in Legion. Same with Sylvanas. They both had character pages on the Legion promo site, both of them stating that being thrust into leadership at the time of the largest Legion Invasion of Azeroth would shape them for the future.

For Sylvanas it implied that she was going to learn the lesson of how to be a leader for more than just “her” people, and for Anduin it was how does one continue to fight for peace against a foe who cares not for peace and only wants to burn?

Then the expansion game out and the only thing Sylvanas did was prepare for Shadowlands, Anduin did fudge-all until BfA where he continued to do fudge all except occasionally cheer on Saurfang.

EDIT: Hell, as other people stated, everything about the BfA trailer implies it was written up and during Legion when the plan was to have Sylvanas and Anduin change. Sylvanas on watching as Alliance breaks through and mows down her people, the visible rage as the siege engine approaches, her destroying it and the members of the Horde looking up in awe and then her “For the Horde!” line urging the Horde to push forward. Almost as at the time her arc was for her to have some actual character development and gasp be an actual good Warchief to the entire Horde.

Then Anduin, leading the Alliance on an assault on Lordaeron, the helmet covering his face. A very subtle acknowledgement to Genn stating “Lordaeron will be ours” as if the attack was launched pre-emptively. When the Horde surges, Anduin yells for everyone to push forward and he goes running in cutting down several Horde warriors until he crushes that one orc. Then upon seeing all the death around him, he remembers he spec’d disc and heals his troops and tells them to keep fighting. It looks like he gained the development that while he still wants to be a good little egg, he is now more than willing to fight and kill for it, as a king must do.

Then they released the pre-patch and lolnope Sylvanas is still just as evil as ever. Anduin only goes to Lordaeron to “avenge Teldrassil”. Neither of them changed because they didn’t get story arcs up to that point and hell neither of them changed after Sylvanas just remained evil, Anduin just remained “We can have peace!” guy.

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Here’s another quote for the list of headscratchers. This one is from an interview on April 5, 2019–around the time of Patch 8.2 and exactly a year after the interviews that told us “Sylvanas is not evil” and “Nor will Anduin’s Lordaeron’s attacks be done for justice.”

https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/5/18286344/world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth-patch-8-2-interview

The story up until 8.2 has been focused nearly entirely on red versus blue — the battle between the Horde and Alliance. “There’s been a lot of strong opinions,” says Hazzikostas, “because there are a lot of strong connections to these characters, especially on the Horde side.” Saurfang and Sylvanas, the Battle of Dazar’Alor, and Jaina’s narrative arc are all stories that the team consider successful.


When I ask Hazzikostas about the developer’s intent on putting this on Horde players, and if they think it can go too far, he briefly hesitates.

“It’s a heavy responsibility, and it’s not one that anyone on the team takes lightly,” he says. “Our aim in storytelling is always to evoke emotion. If that goes too far, it can feel exploitative, it can feel like players are caught in a situation they don’t want to be in. We want people to stick around, to play with their friends, and to see the end of the story we’re telling.”

For players, they’ve spent months dealing with the burden of Darnassus. For characters like Tauren druids, or Blood Elf paladins, this can feel like an overwhelming loss of agency. Many Horde players are also concerned because a similar tale played out two expansions ago in Mists of Pandaria , with Garrosh Hellscream. For these players, the second corrupt Warchief in under five years might suggest that the Horde they have been playing under for a decade or more is broken, and not worth defending.

Hazzikostas is aware of the parallels to Garrosh’s story, and he says that the Horde is too.

“There are a couple of references here and there,” he says. “There are more coming. Members of the Horde leadership will remember going down dark paths before.”

He also notes that Garrosh’s motives were different; they were an attempt to restore a lost vision of the Horde at the expense of everything else. Sylvanas’ goals are still unclear, but Hazzikostas notes, “There will not be a trial where she is in chains. Sylvanas is not a character who would find herself in that situation … ever.”

As for player choice, more decisions will come in the future. “It won’t be something we do lightly,” he says. “We do it when the story makes sense, and we do it when there are real consequences and real follow through.”

The team intends to avoid “false” choices, or the illusion of a branching narrative. Hazzikostas also hints at an interesting possibility for the Alliance’s future narrative: “In this case, it felt right for the Horde. Alliance don’t have that same division in their ranks just yet, and there isn’t that same natural point of choice.”

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I wonder if anyone ever told them how not fun it is to be divided against your own faction.

Like super not engaging at all.

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And here’s one for the Alliance players from August 17, 2018–although I suppose this one could still happen in Shadowlands. Still, Danuser sure makes it sound like this is going to be a BfA storyline.

https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2018/8/17/17697560/world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth-interview-blizzard-horde-alliance-wow

“The Alliance has its share of disparity within it as well, and different facets that have bubbled up over the years,” said Danuser. “The Alliance is going to have to realign itself. Especially the Night Elves who lose their home. How are they going to react to this? There’s going to be a real self-examination of what the Alliance is about, and how they want to behave. Do they want to get revenge on the Horde, or do they want to build a better world? That’s a question they need to answer.”

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Ugh those choices horde side amounted to nothing, it was just “Hey don’t worry, just go with it loyalist”…and had no actual consequences what so ever that I can remember.

Aside from I guess one quest where loyalist could be flagged as hostile to rebel and alliance…but tbh that felt more like a reward at that point in my annoyance.

I don’t even remember what the alliance got as a choice…I think they got to name a ship?

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I think this is lowkey annoying since we’ve hit a point where the alliance could argue pretty hard that achieving the first goal will complete the second one, and you’d be pretty hard pressed to find any horde player actually disagree with you on if the alliance should get revenge.
(I guess it just amount to what could you take from the horde really?)

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I have nothing really to add. I just want to bask for a moment in the juxtaposition of these two statements.

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I also particularly take umbrage with the statement that “it felt right for the Horde”. They drove deep wedges into the Horde playerbase and then said “Oh, the players are divided, so that’s how we’ll write them.”

We were supposed to get an expansion about coming together. @Pellex, isn’t there a quote along those lines, that the Horde’s different parts were going to come together or something?

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Storywise they came together. Saurfang entered Ogrimar hailed by all Horde.

I’ve been looking for it, because I wanted to put it on this thread. If anyone has the link, feel free to jump in.