I don’t wanna use rupture as sub and i don’t wanna use dance as assass.
4 Likes
Well youre in luck
restealthing should not be part of a damage rotation for any spec except sub.
24 Likes
how about nightblade?
That is backwards since sub can stealth in combat with dance–they are the rogue with the lowest value to actual restealth.
Meanwhile Garrote and Master Assassin push Vanish up the priority for Assassination.
1 Like
That’s the whole point of what i said. Vanish shouldn’t be an offensive cd.
11 Likes
We have different opinions on it. It shouldn’t necessarily be a rotational skill for any flavor–that reduces choice. But as something you think about or plan around? Even offensively, that’s just good design.
When the bonus is infrequent enough to avoid balancing performance around mid-fight Vanish? It’s certainly a nice way to place a cherry on top for some extra burst window where needed. Rogue in general should be trying to restealth between fights. Tying damage margin to that is a good encouragement and stops Rogue from being fury-lite in leather.
That’s where I think sin is actually well done design with how Garrote and Carnage work. With two charges of Vanish, it won’t be obligated except for longer fights where the bonus provided is easily covered by the 5% random damage margin on hits. It really will be a choice around fight duration, charge availability, without removing the ability to use Vanish defensively (as the second charge is still in place, and you can choose other mitigation first depending on the circumstance).
I agree Outlaw shouldn’t be using Ambush rotationally. And there should be nothing stealth oriented in their talents, except for utility. It’s partly in honor of the Combat history, but also because an invisible pirate? Only on the open seas.
Do you want to lose in rogue mirrors in PVP? The dot is there for sub to do dmg of course during this wizard meta ish… BUT the dot also obviously stops restealths, which is actually why you use rupture/nightblade.
Also subs restealth value is the highest if you play subterfuge. Each reopener is a is a half shadowdance.
Restealths give you more combo points to spend, and more options for control and dmg, as well as rolling over your shadowdance timer because you have more combo points being spent.
If I’m following you correctly, I 100% agree with this part. However, currently on live and on beta, “stealth” has become a core part of the combat rotation for Assassination and Outlaw.
This is not a good thing and many players have expressed this.
5 Likes
Actually on the beta, for assass at least, we are 1 middle to left talent point being buffed away from losing our last “from stealth” talent. Not having shadow dance has killed the stealth buffing gameplay. The kingsbane nerf has really helped as well. Now they just need to make ambush hit harder than a wet noodle.
Doesn’t ambush hit for double mut damage already?
I originally read through this thread in a PvE context but now reading through in a PvP context, there’s a lot more going on. For PvP, who cares what you want to use? You use what is optimal in context… That’s unfortunately WoW PvP–inherently unbalanced with very limited freedom.
What even is WoW PvP? For most they mean arena, they want to be top deathmatch dogs. But that is really bad for class health. Watching AWC matches where the sin rogue mongos out and looks like a zug zug fury warrior (except for ally steps in place of leap and smoke bombs to daisy chain cross cc), jogging across a maps spamming muts, kills me to watch. I just can’t do it… Let alone to play, it places all of your class into your healer.
For PvE though, stealth was best designed without combat in mind. Merging the two spaces abstractly just negates their differences.
The same is true for Thistle Tea, Shiv and possible Feint (going into TWW). These once were utility abilities you used on an as need basis. Now they are a core parts the rotation and are rarely available when you actually need them.
4 Likes
It hits for barely more than a mutilate. At least on the beta. They have buffed mutilate damage a bit so our damage isn’t 80% garrote anymore.
3 Likes
would be nice if vicious venoms wasnt so energy taxing. ambush and mut would be so much better
We use feint when needed. It has nothing attached to it my friend.
Shiv yes stinks for Assass but dunno what else they could reasonably do and tea was brought down to 11% on beta (dunno if lower in pvp as didn’t honestly care to test that as I am not a tea type rogue). A majority of the bonus damage will be moved to Deathstalker marks which are pretty fat and hopefully puts some more punch back into mut / ambush for assassins. Dunno how well you guys’ vicious venoms does but with 90% increased (+more) damage during shiv et al., it had to be reasonably tuned somehow as frequent as Assass can be.
Im just glad us Subtlety rogues can have the choices of making backstab and gloomblades do decent damage again and it is all I really honestly have interest in as an big time generators being impactful instead of AlL iN dAncE lUl since legion nonsense hijacked everything. Im thankful an appropriate assortment of choices are available and instead if “this way only”.
I believe Trickster is or was tied to Feint. I 'm not sure if it was changed or not.
Yes maam, was changed a while ago. It is off of primary builders and I live in the generator style anyway since that finally returned in DF. Im glad they made different styles and didn’t lock us into x talents only.
Side note
- dfa slams on all 3 specializations
- cosmic stuff from fatebound hits pretty freaking hard and was updated and flows well. The extra finisher damage from cosmic hits such as fate intertwined does well and has an extended range.
- deathstalker mechanically changed a little and is a lot of fun to play as well. The new execute talent works like instantly consuming a full rupture on a target and the new version of DS mark is easy to maintain and consume when the rogue wants to. Definitely big time shape ups as blizz said they would do.
Actually on the beta you don’t even use ambush anymore outside of applying deathmark due to the fact that it hits for just about the same as mutilate now.
2 Likes
Well, if this remains the case, Devs need to rethink Blindside.
Just a dead talent at the moment. However, it saves us a button on our out of stealth bar.
1 Like