The system. Is literally designed. To allow. This. To. Happen. Good lord. Might go back to ignoring you.
And gaming the system is using how it is designed, or what it allows, to increase your own chances.
You donât see it as such because the system is designed that way. But, the thing is, gaminging the system is, again, USING IT HOW IT IS DESINGED in a WAY THAT GIVES YOU YOUR DESIRED OUTCOME, be it a better chance at loot or a for sure win.
To boil it down, instead of thinking âthe system allows thisâ think in terms of how one is looking for loopholes or flaws in the design like:
âI want X, system allows Y, so to get X, I can use Y for a better shotâ
If you really think it is not gaming the system, show me without falling back on the design of the system.
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I would have to say itâs not necessarily gaming the system because theyâre not doing anything to increase their chances over anyone else.
What I would compare it to is the old âLeave a Penny, Take a Pennyâ things that (used to?) be in gas stations and the like. Youâre allowed to take a penny, but dumping the entire thing in your purse because you can is a pretty jerk move.
Thank you, I had covered this as well with
and
If everyone does it, the chances remain the same, if one rolled need, when everyone else rolled for mog but no one needed it as an upgrade, then they did increase their chances over others.
Instead of saying the system allows it, it might have been better to say something like âbarring situations that come from seeing the rolls, everyone will use the way the system is designed to, not increase their chances, but to keep their chances the same as everyone else.â
Ah I see what youâre saying. Itâs still a bit of a gray area â I wouldnât equate it with âcheatingâ or âriggingâ, for instance â but itâs still (IMO) a jerk move b/c we can show transmogs arenât meant for Need. But all someone would have to say is that they wanted it in case it was, or they thought it might be, an actual âupgradeâ. Some of those cases would be fairly easy to disprove, but weâre talking about a company that canât even clearly state their own loot rules lol.
There is no concrete definition of âupgradeâ.
Just because YOU view an upgrade as an item level upgrade doesnt mean that completing a transmog set isnt viewed as an upgrade by others.
You are the one being obtuse and unable to provide a citation.
If someone can equip it and hit need and its an upgrade for their transmog. Your interpretation of âupgradeâ doesnt mean thats the only one.
Every point I have made you cant refute.
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Yeah, even I admit it is not gaming the system, when one points out everyone (or a high %) does it, as no advantage is gained from such in that case, it is just keeping everything âfairâ
But it does come down to at least a little of what people think the intent of the system is. Like I feel the intent is so those looking for upgrades (even if it is just better stats) are able to get them over those after the look, gold or enchanting mats.
Both of those are what everyone on your side of the argument has said are acceptable to roll need though. But itâs suddenly not OK, even if those are legitimate upgrades for that toon because youâre arbitrarily deciding theyâre gaming the system now? Câmon.
I never said it was not ok, just pointing out options, and likely the ones that would be more âmorally acceptableâ or however you want to put it to others.
In which case, I could be not just gaming the system, as it is designed, but also the systems players put in place.
A lot of it boils down to the debate not being fueled by facts or logic, but instead purely by emotion. Emotions arenât always logical. Even when the facts are presented, the goal posts are moved. âYeah, well, itâs actually this! insert new talking point here.â
And some of it is fueled by different interpretations/application of facts. Like one could say since we see a blue sky, the sky is blue, another cold say since we see a blue sky, the sky is clear and we are seeing something that is giving it the blue color.
The fact is we all see a blue sky, but we interoperate what is causing the blue color differently.
Indeed. A lot of people who swear they need gear have been asking for the old system that reduces their chances but makes them feel better (even though when they had that system before they still complained that people didnât give away loot to them.)
The actual issue is them not getting what they want when they want it.
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brb making my 0 gear alt so i can roll guilt free because Iâm gearing a new character so they feel better whenever i win the item anyway.
Fact of the matter is, no matter what system, no matter what restrictions, or whatever are in place, there will always be at least one that will look for ways to game the system or work within the system, to get what they want.
Thing is, the easier it is to do, the more that will do it, and the result will more likely then not be the same as it was before, so a net 0 gain in advantage.
there will also be those that feel the game is rigged against them and ignore any time they win, only notice when they lose unless stuff is being funneled to them and focus on when someone else wins
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True, but I am not one that will say the game/system, as designed, is against me. I am more likely to say how the system is used by others is against me, unless I start using the system as others do.
Because they can.
self victimizing, if you donât want to use the system as designed, donât complain that other people are.
example, ill make my 0 gear alt, go play and never complain that powerful characters are rolling against my 0 gear alt. IDK why I would care
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AndâŚthatâs all that needs to be said. As far as Iâm concerned, we are all done here.
It is also what happens when one is one of the more selfless people out there. Donât get me wrong, I, like others, am out there for myself as well, I just prefer to be for myself on my own terms. Like I want others to get upgrades just to increase the pool for M+ and raid (normal+) pugs.
Maybe some, instead of trying to make the better ones among us like them, need to look at what the better ones among us are doing and copy it, who knows that might just be the shot in the arm the game needs.