I do understand what you’re saying, but I also think that is a massively unrealistic expectation in a pug environment. I honestly liked the personal loot system better, but I can’t change what Blizz decided to do. The nature of most people is to pretend they are the only ones in existence or the only ones that matter. Calling people out and whatnot has no real impact. None of that has had a true impact since way back before LFG, raid finder, cross realm grouping, etc. all existed. Back when you could only group with people on your own server and you also had to build your own groups, your reputation definitely mattered. With all the cross realm LFG style stuff now, there is virtually 0 consequence or accountability.
Nothing in that backs up what you think it does.
So again
Citation?
That was my point 
… you can’t need roll when there’s no rolling.
Lootin’ ain’t the same as hate speech my dude. I wasn’t trying to go into super details about it to be forum friendly
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Then maybe LFR should get the follower dungeons treatment, if that is the attitude most people have, might as well make it so that, for queued content at least, they are the only one there.
Everyone need rolls in Pl. should probably learn how it actually worked.
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When it comes to games, it’s a dog-eat-dog place. Sure, we can empathize with others, but ultimately most players will show you little to no mercy, even if they are by most standards a good person. Everyone wants something, and group loot is an endless competition. Some will win, some will lose. Such is RNG. Such is life. 
RNG is the very definition of “You can’t always get what you want”.
Group loot isn’t a perfect system by any means, and if it’s what the devs are sticking with then it could and should be improved, but I also don’t see how it isn’t fair, at least for the most part. It all comes back to one of the points others have been making all along. Everyone who participates in a boss kill should be given a shot at the loot. Period.
With the RNG and restrictions in place, i’d say you read can’t manipulate the system in this case.
There was no guarantee you’d ever get anything with PL.
The changes to the system say otherwise.
As soon as you enter the raid you chose to effectively need roll on everything.
You can’t manipulate it to make sure you win, but one can do so to maximize their chances.
There is nothing one can do about the RNG factor, but the restrictions?
- roll a class that can use the item and run that toon through
- if the restrictions are made so one can’t roll need on items of a lower ilvl period, roll a second character of that class and take it through, possibly rolling need on everything (I.E. what has been mentioned some would do).
Like if I want an agil pole arm for the mog, I have a druid, a monk and a hunter, I can set the loot spec to one that has priority for it and roll need if I so desired. I can still lose the item, but since my druid is a healer/ranged DPS and my hunter is a ranged DPS, could one say I did not manipulate the system to maximize my chances?
That isn’t manipulating the system. That is changing loot specs (as the game allows by design) to allow you to roll on items for said spec (also by design).
Ugh, I already stated that manipulating, or gaming the system, is working within the boundaries and permissions of the system to increase your chances if not getting what you want. Or to use your own words, it is using how the system is DESIGNED, or more accurately the flaws in the design, to get a better shat at what you want.
“You may only roll Need on an item if your class can equip it and it is considered an upgrade.”
Sorry, should I have said “item upgrade”? Would that be better?
You guys can’t really be this obtuse.
Written a little differently
“You may roll Need if and only if you can equip the item and it is an upgrade and you don’t own the same exact item”
P => Q (or P iff Q)
This statement is true if both P and Q are false or if both P and Q are true.
Can you point to a case where P is false and Q is true or vice versa?
And as I said, that’s not manipulation or gaming the system. That is literally just using the system the way they designed it.
I believe under PL the complaints where from normal content or better, not LFR. Satisfy one group and another group complains - still though, now in retrospect, personal loot for LFR is better.
Which is the base meaning of manipulating or gaming the system when it is done to give yourself at least a potential advantage over others.
Greed is considered a useless button these days.
I do!
tmog. Transmute. Coin
“Gaming the system (also rigging , abusing , cheating , milking , playing , working , breaking the system , gaming , or bending the rules ) can be defined as using the rules and procedures meant to protect a system to, instead, manipulate the system for a desired outcome.”
There is no rigging, abusing, cheating, milking, playing, breaking the system, gaming or bending the rules when the system allows you to loot things with the spec you set yourself because that’s the way it was intended to be used. Try again.
I suppose we could argue moral high grounds all day, but that isn’t entirely relevant currently.
Rigging? maybe not, abusing? yes, milking? possibly, playing, certainly, breaking? likley not, gaming? yes, bending the rules? possibly.
The best you can say is “if everyone does it, it does not amount to gaming the system”, but keep in mind, in cases like 10 can use for t mog, 5 of those can use it, but it is an upgrade for none, so 9 of them, including 4 that can use it, roll for mog, the last one seees this and rolls need. Guess who wins?
Again, it is gaming the system, but it is so easy to do that so many do it, it might as well not be considered such outside of situations like I just posted.
is the Transmog and usually the Weapons and LFR is a most hard one to get since you only get people when is current content or wait until the raid is soloable