literally the best way to gear but apparently a super geared character in the raid getting a piece of loot in lfr is the only reason their character cant climb. If that character had not been there, THEY would have gotten that piece of loot and the world would be a better place, that’s the imagery they put out.
They think suddenly there would be less competition if geared chars weren’t around
There is a third option and that’s what i would go with. I DO view all forms of gameplay valid, i DO NOT view them as equally important because progression and the hinderance of it is a problem from my point of view. It’s not all black and white, they can all be valid AND some can be more important than others. Also i would add that in many instances as a poster above mentioned you can ASK the raid if its ok to roll need on tmog as long as it’s not an upgrade for anyone else.
Hurt someones ability to progress in raiding, not in that specific raid but to progress in general in raiding and M+ keys etc… On your main yes because you don’t need the item since your current gear already has higher ilvl, however if your alt needs it to get bis for that toon then no.
As far as “contributing” less. You outgear the content you are doing when you are on your 486 toon, you are overhealing and just brute forcing anything you want to do, there is no challenge to it at all. However your alt can contribute to be successful and that is the important thing so the raid is successful and not if you overgear the encounters are not or if you have a huge margin to failure.
But that’s not even the point, i would prefer you didn’t build a new alt to suck up everything along the way (which as i read your reply is what you are saying and i agree), there are other ways to have a win/win. First and i don’t know if you are comfortable with this you could lead the LFG and invite all classes but your own so that any xmog is yours for what i am assuming is your priest. Maybe even invite 1 other priest with the understanding you are rolling for xmog items. It’s not 40 man raiding anymore but there are plenty enough classes available that you can run things (10 man or 25 man or whatever size raids are now) with you as the only priest OR you could ask the raid if they are ok (as another poster recommended earlier) if you roll need for xmog BEFORE the raid gets going. Also the other ways of gaining transmog as i mentioned before.
I think this is great. Very helpful for others for certain.
I think it’s great you stick around too because LOTS of folks don’t stick around and leave once a boss doesn’t have the item they are looking for or they don’t get it, kind of sad how many folks just drop because they don’t want to help the team finish.
I’m not telling you that you have to do anything. The reality of the game is that you can roll what you want when you want, you have been and i’m sure i’m not going to persuade you otherwise. I’m simply laying out the case for why ilvl upgrade is more important than transmog. Laying out options for how to deal with it.
The reality of the game is no it doesn’t dictate playstyle. However you do recognize the moral reality of what happens to others when you need for transmog and they are hindered from progression. Also the reality is that if you don’t run something and brute force it with your overgeared toon SOMEONE ELSE will.
So i will say this. Transmog is important but becomes more important once you have capped out. Because once you have settled in and have your BiS for that tier that you will get then transmog is one of the other ways to play the game that folks enjoy. No one is sitting at lower levels hunting transmog as a level 10, folks that are hunting transmog are at level cap.
Yes it is my personal opinion as well as others. ALL people play this game for collection because that’s what gear progression is, it’s a collection of BiS you can get at current level and skill. Whether its LFR or normal or Heroic or Mythic or whatever, it’s a collection of gear. Having higher ilvl helps do transmog runs, no one dings 70 and says ok i’m done lets go transmog.
If you think i’m ok with the majority telling the minority something, i’m fine with that. Majority and minority has nothing to do with anything, it’s just the way it is. The reality of the game is you are going to do what you are going to do and some majority and minority has no meaning because the game allows folks to roll need for any reason they want and it doesn’t matter.
All i did was point out if you roll need on something that is an actual upgrade to someone else you are impacting them in a very real way vs. you losing a need roll on a transmog, that’s it. Has nothing to do with who’s time is more “valuable” or making you wait years for something. You already yield low level gear to random characters so i’m not sure what that matters but whatever.
Talk about dramatic, no one ever said this or implied it.
When you hit lvl cap do you only do M+ forever or do you try to do LFR or Normal or Heroic to get drops too? Because what i said has nothing to do with LFR although it does apply to LFR as well. When you are sitting in that sweet 389 or 415 or whatever gear questing drops at just before level cap how do you gear?
Oh yea, and not everyone is you.
More dramatics, i’m ok with you turning a blind eye to what i said and loading up on copium because someone told you that you might be hindering folks.
Doesn’t matter if geared characters are around, that just makes it easier and faster with a larger margin for error, raid can be successful without super overgeared folks. All PvE is just a gear check, having lots of it doesn’t really mean much, all that matters is having enough.
Going to bed. Good to be able to read what you said after you posted back to me. Elitism is alive and well. Love it.
I buy the base level crafted gear and straight into mythic plus. Grind that out until I get my ilvl to where I can pug normal/heroic.
What you’re not understanding is if you care about ilvl gains raising is the absolute worst way to gear. You should be using raid as an extra way to gear but not the main way.
And if you lose the roll you lose the roll.
I lost both the Nymue and the Tindral caster trinkets last night in a normal pug. I didn’t throw a fit even though I’m still using a season 2 fragment.
either they are all valid or some are more important than others, because once you say one is more valid than the other, they are not all valid anymore. Also keep in mind what you said just now and remember it well because I will bring it back around when at the end you talk about how elitism is alive and well because this is it.
so its not the fact that you didn’t get the item, but rather the fact that someone who you didn’t want getting it got it. Got it. I am the elitist one though.
I wasn’t aware people doing LFR are doing so for the challenge
Oh no, I have been specifically talking about LFR this whole time.
for LFG, I just follow whatever the rules the raid leader sets, if the leader didn’t specify the rules, I will roll on what I am after, I don’t think there is any need to jump any additional hoops. I will just get out of the raid that is against me rolling for mogs.
strictly adhering to current acquisition methods, I cannot gain lfr appearances on anything other than LFR unless its tier related.
I think this is because you are talking about LFG while i was talking about LFR, but you just did a full 180 on your own argument. You just told me you prefer if i bring my garbage alt with 0 gear and that its somehow better than helping a raid with my main while retaining my right to roll on mogs i need.
LFR is a revolving door, undergeared alts leave all the time idk why you would hold higher geared players to a higher standard while telling them they cant roll need on anything.
LFG and LFR distinction, again if i join the raid and the raid leader makes a set of rules and they don’t fit my needs, I will leave and make room for someone else.
no you just said that the majority considering power the most important thing means everyone else who doesn’t agree to just accept and adapt according to that notion, literally they are less important to you.
If Ilvl upgrade is more important than transmog and then i offer to bring a 0 gear alt to “earn” the right to roll on everything instead of just a handful of things my main needed then you are asking me to hinder the ability of others to climb even harder than if i just brought my main. The raid will be filled with someone categorically weaker (character and or player wise)
By your logic the more powerful a character is, the more restricted they should become and thus there’s less incentive to play them.
elitist opinion
proof? also i never talked about level, i always talked about ilvl, there’s plenty of transmog hunters sitting at abysmally low ilvls, it isn’t something you HAVE to do after you finish gearing, because again, its a completely valid form of gameplay you can start doing at any point in time (but most ppl do it at max lvl, not ILVL though)
you are saying that because the majority think a certain way, that anyone else should just accept they have to pass on anything you deem “not an upgrade”
the amount of elitism in this train of thought is off the rails.
I’ve been saying that… so at the end instead of us fighting we can just dice roll and whoever wins gets the loot, I’m not gonna get mad that i have been there countless times trying to get it and its just your first time, if you win.
But i guess you are gonna be pissed if i win.
is this a hint that maybe this whole thing was about nothing and that we are all playing under blizzards rules and should just accept RNG is part of the progression and that a geared character winning a piece of mog isn’t toxic and it didn’t mean someone was hurt and if someone else had been filling in that spot they probably would have rolled too, thus making this whole argument pointless? no?
at this point i can actually draw a circle and show you what circular logic actually is.
you just told me if i win that piece on my alt it didn’t impact them at all…somehow… its just because you don’t like geared characters hunting for mogs which is funny because <<checks notes>>
so now that I’m capped out and transmog is important to me, is when you choose to pick a fight with me over my main being present doing the very thing you told me to do. But when its my garbage alt, you are perfectly fine if I roll…but wait <<checks notes again>>
doesn’t that mean, based on this sort of logic, people should be transmog hunting while weaker to avoid ruffling feathers when their character gets more powerful, and therefore loses rights and value in your eyes?
My 15 dollars are less important the more powerful I become, because as long as anyone else but me wins, no one is hurt. I think that’s what you are saying. So might as well start early before you jump down my throat and make assumptions on my character as a person based on how I choose to play. yet here you are saying people don’t do that. Which one is it?
no? then what is the incentive for me to bring my main character to an lfr raid if i cant roll on anything?
the reason he’s talking about LFR, is because this whole thing is about LFR dude. Youve been asking me to treat people in LFR as if they were my own personal team. All raid leads can set loot rules, if you join you accept them period.
only my powerful characters getting loot hinders others, not my alt with 0 gear, even though my powerful character rolls on less loot, by a huge margin, yes very logical.
yea that’s not relevant in any way. But if you think the absence of powerful characters in LFR and just like…regular raids isn’t going to hinder the likelihood of completion of said raid, you are just being delusional.
yes, i am finally here, the best sentence you said all night i can literally draw a red line on and connect it to your very first words in this last post.
Elitism. The sense that some ppl are more deserving than others because your opinion that power trumps all other forms of gameplay, should be enough to guilt trip me into passing all loot to random people i do not know .
The sense of elitism in telling me that other characters are more important than mine, and that as a character gets more powerful, they have to jump through more hoops to get anything.
The sense that anyone has to justify being able to roll need on an item they want for their collection as a bad thing that hinders others progressions, while telling me that if i just bring a character that can get a numerical upgrade from the same item, isn’t equally, if not more damaging to the game than my main being able to target specific drops.
Never make an accusation that is actually a confession, you are accusing someone of elitism while arguing using the very definition of it.
Good. Night.
They are quing up for a dps roll, but rolling for a different spec. Which gives different stats and the ability to roll on it
Just pretend we’re still using personal loot.
But the game doesn’t work like that today, even if everyone reading this thinks it should. So in the meantime until Blizzard changes the game to function that way (if they ever do), the question is still valid. Players with higher levels that want mog either roll need on items the game lets them to have any realistic chance at the mog or are basically there just to be a charity for lower geared players.
Apparently people who think rolling need on a lower item level piece in WoW should be treated as a capital offense.
How is this an indication of the loot system not working well? If it was their BIS item, even at a lower item level it legitimately could be a performance upgrade for them. Fully upgraded it would only be 6 item levels behind a myth track belt item. Why shouldn’t they have been able to roll on it?
And the item level system has been so flawed in WoW since the jump that there is no way to easily determine what actually is stronger gear. The people who want to impose further restrictions on what higher geared players can roll on almost exclusively use item level. Such a system would prevent many people from rolling on actual upgrades, but those advocating for the restrictions aren’t willing to consider this flaw when pointed out to them.
And under the current loot system, they mostly don’t. As soon as Blizzard makes the mog roll be just for the appearance separate from the item itself that’s decided by need or greed, I will get on board with this sentiment fully. But today, for most items in most LFR groups, a transmog roll selection is functionally equivalent to passing.
Idk where you’re getting the idea that I don’t know how WoW looting works or that I’m an lfr player but neither of those things are true.
I know that the system allows this. Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean it’s good. But apparently that concept is impossible for WoW players to understand.
I really don’t understand how people can’t see an issue with a max geared toon pubstomping in lfr and getting a bunch of mog (which 90% of the time only serves the function of checking a box on a list). Over people who actually want to progress further into the content the game has to offer. They only have so much time to play the season. That mog is literally in the game forever. Hell one xpac on and my Enh sham can kill shadowlands bosses.
This content is literally designed for the noobs, bads, and fresh toons, let ‘em have the rewards too ffs.
Not even really considering how it’s just a MASSIVE feel bad to lose loot to someone 30 ilvls above you and doing more than double your damage. How is that good game design at all?
It’s my biggest complaint about doing lfr. I generally stay away from lfr because of this one thing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve lost a piece of gear in lfr then looked at what that person was wearing and they were wearing gear from a higher tier. If it was every once in a while I wouldn’t gripe about it but it’s nearly every single trip to lfr for years. I’m fine with losing rolls but it doesn’t feel good when the person you lost to is just vendoring the item. I don’t know why this issue hasn’t been addressed by blizzard.
Edited: just read through some other babble. This argument that high geared players deserve to be able to roll need on gear to is about the stupidest comment I’ve heard. Why in the world would you take your “high geared” player into lfr then feel like your justified to screw everyone else over just because you had some better luck with rolls. My priest is 486 item lvl and aside from helping guildies out I wouldnt be caught dead in lfr and if I were im not rolling on gear im just gonna vendor for a few gold. What kind of weird entitlement do you have that you think this logic should be acceptable?
Why are you looking though?
First, you have no idea how often someone might use a mog they collect. That 90% you quoted was simply made up. Meanwhile 100% of the gear people take for upgrade out of LFR will be outdated in 6 months.
But even beyond that, it’s not that I can’t understand how it would be better for players to be able to get use out of items that drop, it’s that you have this unrealistic expectation that a geared player would simply be there out of the goodness of their heart. If the geared player is only there for transmog yet they have no path to get the transmog, they will simply no longer go into LFR. This means that geared player would be replaced by another player who does “need” the gear per your narrow scope and you don’t have any better luck at winning as you did with the geared player. So nothing changed with whether you take home the item but we have disallowed the player who might have wanted a chance at the appearance that opportunity. That isn’t better for the game.
To be clear, I have said numerous times that I think the transmog button should be modified to serve a purpose, to give that geared player a fair shot at mog. But today it doesn’t in LFR. And until it does, them rolling need is the only way they have a realistic chance. They put the work into the killing the boss the same as you, you have no right to try to dictate that they shouldn’t be entitled to a chance at the spoils.
It’s not good design, but not because of the things you’re complaining about. The bad design is that a geared person feels the need to go into LFR in the first place, and then once there they have to use the need button to have a chance at that appearance. It’s not because this person was allowed to roll need on an item they helped the group earn simply because you feel they shouldn’t be able to.
I want transmog and it is unfair if I pug a lower raid and am not allowed to have a fair roll on gear.
The new loot system is terrible, I will roll on everything and take anything I can get. If they disallow my chance on gear, then a whole lot of people simply won’t pug and you will have less people willing to join you.
Ask them to return to individual personal loot instead of this system instead of complaining why I am rolling on gear I helped to win because I want to.
It’s often brought up in these threads. Yes everyone could use the stuff that dropped, at you got a ton of stuff off everyone’s loot tables that was useable but unneeded after week 2-3. A shard from a ring is no different from as shard from a bow.
Fair enough. If judging people is more important than actually getting loot, you’re correct that PL lets people not loot stuff and hide it. It still didn’t eliminate the rage and people who didn’t “need” loot getting it, as evidenced by the weekly threads about people not giving up their loot with PL either.
Except the person going for mog has the likely chance of getting it after someone who needs. That’s the point of rolling restrictions.
IMO, we all had a fair shot at it and they won, if someone mythic geared got the trinket I was after, good for them. (And I won’t even know because I’m not inspecting folks)
If shared values is critical for someone’s fun, organized teams would be the way to go. If you’re LFRing, the shared value should probably stop at downing the bosses.
This is the thing, right? I like to run LFR for flightstones on new characters but if I roll need, knowing I’m going to replace this gear when I do keys with the lads in a week… is that just as bad? The whole who “deserves” it more is tiring though. People should be allowed to roll for mog.
They complained under PL too. It’s not about the loot system, it’s about them losing. You could mail out the whole BIS kit to everyone at launch and these folks would still complain that they didn’t get it in the prepatch.
Yes you are. Why are you doing so much damage?? Oh because youre way over geared. You dont dominate that much in content your ilvl says you should be running.
Saying you desteoyed the content is sooooo hilarious. Yea youre way over geared for it. So yea, joining, trouncing everything and taking upgrades away from people makes you greedy. Sorry for the rude awakening lmao
No one is willing to admit obvious greed. Lmao just admit it. Its greedy
Darn right. And I’m going to hold you personally responsible for keeping that loot that is my birthright from me, Sarama.
Had a few today where one of the tanks was top 3 in damage every single fight. He also needed on EVERYTHING. Won some stuff too. I checked his gear and he didn’t have a single item under 483. Most was 486. Still needed on every piece. The other tank couldn’t even keep aggro off of him. It was ridiculous.
If needing on gear for looks over someone who would actually benefit IN THE GAME from the gear isnt greedy, then what is?
Just admit youre being an a**. You do ahole things. Who cares. Trying so desperatley to seem not like an ahole. Just embrace it. No one is fooled lol
Nobody NEEDS a transmog. Need is for upgrades. This is easy to establish by the way the game works. You dont progress with looks. You progress with stats. Stats are NEEDED. Looks are not. You are a greedy goblin needing for looks. You have no argument. Admit youre just being selfish. You joined knowing you would likely take someones upgrade if you won a need roll. Good stuff.
First, transmog.
Second, to potentially trade for an item I actually do need later in the run.
My time in the group is just as valuable as yours. If the game allows me to roll Need, I’m rolling Need. I will trade for something later if possible and roll it off at the end if not.