Dinars should come back, as right now its is possible to go months without seeing a trinket drop (just happened to me, for example) and will make groups decline your invite (due to lower ilvl, because loot is rng) which then makes it more difficult to get into groups to farm M+ or raid for trinkets. Its a compounding issue, which RNG makes worse especially coupled with social expectations of gearing through the season.
Wining at RNG isnt a good feeling, getting rewarded for your effort is.
Um sorry i was assuming you were paying attention to the thread instead of adding your pointless 2 cents. This thread is basically about whether or not theres a moral, or rightful obligation for powerful characters to just have to pass on everything even if they participate and probably carry the raid.
I argued that you cant make people prioritize others people needs over their own since we both pay subs. You came to their defense by asking the rhetorical question that my needs arent more important, and when i pointed out thats why we can both roll, you pivoting to creating an ideal scenario as if i was sitting here telling you that everything is fine as is.
Nope, you just asked what the alternative was and assumed I would add âunder the current systemâ to it.
Under the current system, there are only 2 alternatives:
Good, maybe LFR does not need nor want you in it. Again, I am all for ones like you getting what you are after, donât make me argue for getting what you deserve.
Keep in mind, for ones like me, gear from LFR is either icing or a stop gap till we get better from other content, my main reasons for doing LFR are quests, like for the current season killing fyrak and the helm enchant item.
How so what?
I agree that RNG sucks. Thatâs the nature of RNG and we are all at its mercy. In your example, at least, youâre not losing rolls for trinkets to transmog.
Thankfully there are crafted options (you pick the stats) to help fill in the gaps for progression - even trinkets - until you get the piece you really want from raid. And thereâs decent enough options from other world content sources to help boost you up to full veteran 463 easily (even trinkets), and at least one weekly activity that provides a champion 475 piece. Youâre not going to have trouble getting into raids or m+ for progression in that gear. If I feel like itâs taking awhile to get in, I just run up my own key or run with a friend. You can still progress while you wait for RNG to smile on you. Thatâs what everyone does.
The interesting thing about RNG in this particular argument is that people seem to think that if they stop higher geared players from rolling need for transmog itâll give them a better chance at the loot. Instead it just means a whole lot of higher geared players will stop running LFR. Which sounds great until you realize that doesnât make your chances get any better with RNG rolls⌠those higher geared players are instead replaced with players who have lower gear like them who all need the upgrade, too. Your chances of winning a roll will end up being about the same either way.
Donât even need to make another toon. Keep your last season gear and use that in LFR only to her mogs so people like OP canât complain
Thatâs not necessarily true at all. Thereâs a ton of people who are nowhere close to being able to clear mythic raids that just have to wait a few expansions to get those nice appearances.
Rolling on loot youâre eligible for, after you participated in the kill, isnât treating someone else badly. Everyone eligible had a fair shot at it.
Not in the constant stream of fresh 70s that make up LFR .
Quality change - going from PL to GL. Made it harder for overgeared folks to farm LFR for mog and made it easier to actually get stuff like shields, weapons, and trinkets.
Asking for the system that made it easier for the overgeared folks to come down to LFR and get stuff is ridiculous if youâre claiming to actually need those drops to equip. PL in LFR is 100% a benefit to mog farmers over GL.
Bingo. Drop the greed and tmog options.
If youâre ok with PL, where everyone automatically needs, you shouldnât have any issue with folks hitting need in GL, since you donât mind everyone rolling on everything when the game forces them to.
True, itâs an unfair benefit on GL for the lesser geared folks. Oddly the good Samaritan crew doesnât seem to mind having that go away when they say PL should come back.
Blizz seems to think having so heavy hitters in lower stuff is good. Canât say I disagree, one shotting every LGR is a lot better than spending the same amount of time on getting to 10 stacks to get through the first 1-2.
No, theyâre just saying that they also value this as a need.
Still telling this lie? Itâs pretty embarrassing seeing as how youâve been corrected way too many times for it to be anything besides intentional at this point.
It might have made it easier, but it also kept things hidden and only loot that the classes could use dropped. This is the part some ignore, we are more apt to point out when the rottenness is open vs when it is hidden/done in the background.
I donât have issues with people that need hitting need with GL, I have issues with how open rolling in GL is because anyone that rolls need when they donât need is just showing themselves as a selfish person. PL was better as people could choose hwat they did with the loot they got and complaints about this kind of thign were low, instead being about how people refused to trade loot they got.
Again, it is what is seen vs. what is hidden, most are going to be like âif I donât see it, how do I know it affects meâ where if it is visual, like rolling in GL is, they can actually see people they donât feel or think need the loot roll need and take it from ones that actually do need.
And the fight is cause the ones who value things like mog as a need (can also be gold or enchanting mats) are not REPECTING the views and values of those who donât. I mean would it be so much to say âI respect your views, but under the current system it means your are likely going to be last to get what you are after as everyone that wants is rolling need for the best chanceâ?
With the ones who donât value mog, or whatever, as a need, could be like âok, yeah, with the current system, it makes sense to roll need if you can and want the item for any reason, but it just rubs me the wrong way that people can take upgrades from those that need when there are other ways to get what they are after which donât have that issueâ.
In short, when values clash, there is no winner, just a lot of sore feelings and bad blood for everyone involved.
Respect goes both ways.
Itâs hard to respect the mindset some people have that their roll is somehow worth more than another person whose sub and time equally contributed to the kill.
The entitlement there is astounding.
But a few words can show respect and calm things down, all it takes to show respect is understanding where one is coming from and communicating that you do understand that.
To put it another way, if they are not being respectful to you, donât return the disrespect, you might just get those more willing to listen.
It can be just as hard to respect those that think their roll is somehow worth the same or more when, since ilvl is such a factor in pugs, they need it for vanity over one that is looking to increase stats, ilvl, etc to get out of LFR.
While making lower tier appearances available in some easy would solve some of the issues of Needing, it wouldnât solve the one where people Need in order to offer it for sale.
It is sort of about entitlement - factually, sure, everyone who takes part is equally âentitledâ to a chance at something. But take my case: I have a few fairly undergeared characters and I thought it might be fun to do a couple of LFR to both experience the fights and perhaps get something the character could use. But after watching the massive number of Need rolls being made by players who very obviously did not actually âneedâ that item for their character, thus reducing my chance numerically, I stopped doing LFR. I found it too demoralizing.
I can do heroic dungeons etc and get one chance per week of getting a decent upgrade via the Vault that I donât have to roll against some higher geared player to get. And I can go out and do stuff in the word that has the potential for being upgraded to tier, again without ever stepping into LFR or any other raid.
If it keeps on going as it is, with players like me finding the whole process is pointless, you will probably end up with raids full of overgeared transmog hunters, which is sort of not the original reason the LFR system was created.
And even being able to roll could be that âequal entitled chanceâ. some, like me, just might choose to take our chances with our chance and give one that actually needs a greater chance at getting what they need by removing ourselves from the roll (by rolling for mog, greed or pass).
Really, some want just want the chance to be able to do what they want with that chance. Some will use that chance to get try and get what they want first, others will use that chance to get it if no one else needs it. That window pops up on my screen, I will see if it is an upgrade and decide from that, if it is I hit need, if it is not I hit Tmog or greed, no one forcing me to do so, no one affecting my choice, just my own applying my desire to keep my vanity second to others necessity.
Yeah, I have never done an LFR and rolled Need on an item I donât actually need. I know its pointless to roll Greed because it will always be exceeded by Need but its the way Iâve always played and I always will. Not saying Iâm saintly, it just happens to be what makes me feel comfortable.
lol you say
but also
AND THEN
Thatâs the thing⌠everyoneâs roll is worth the same! We all pay the same sub. We all spent the same amount of time contributing to the kill. I have no idea why you think you have the right to suggest someone elseâs roll is not worth the same as yours, or why you think you get to decide whether someone else needs the item or not.
And at what point did someone looking for transmog say they think their rolls should be worth more? Thatâs absolutely ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as you thinking that your ilevel somehow entitles you to the loot more than someone else who also contributed to the kill and is eligible to roll Need by the game. That doesnât sound like respect to me. Maybe if you were more respectful, youâd be able to get more people willing to listen.
Mostly just been waiting for someone, anyone to get to this point to respond to this thread again.
And this is an example of a low quality selfish narcissist. Give me colors over helping folks improve their gear. WoW peak elitism you wonât find any better example.
Sorry peon you canât improve your gear because i need that color for my transmog set.
Yea, everything is Blizzards fault, not garbage human beings screwing other folks over for a new color of gear.
Youâre not much different from the other guy. Youâve gotta give respect to get it. Insulting anyone with a different view just because you disagree isnât going to get you anywhere.
yes, so far so good
Good so far this is the right mindset, I mean itâs a little alt with not much to offer but if you put in the effort you should get to roll on stuff you want! Besides, you are doing it for the experience right?
oh no, here it is. Remember how you said everyone participating is equally entitled to get something? what happened?.
But ok, letâs change the settings to be more pleasing and remove those pesky overgeared people carrying the raid and rolling need on transmogs they want to hunt for because thatâs how they enjoy the game. So tell me, who is going to be filling in those spots? is it other alts like yours with nothing? Are THEY going to pass the loot to your alt and improve your âchances numerically?â
Or, are you saying the same âovergearedâ players should just be so honored to have little rat alts present and pass so that they can get gear, and what benefit does it bring those players to just do that? Are they just supposed to accept the scraps that the never ending revolving door of alts might (but probably wonât) ever pass on?
So when your alt is geared and you stop doing lfr is when I can roll need on the mog I wanted? or do I also have to pass for the next generation of alts that also have 0 gear?
Ok, if you want to play this card, then try this on for size, if contru=ibution was a factor, then why, if the only âcontributionâ on has is suiciding on pull or only doing the bare minimum (auto attacks) do they get the same weight for rolling as one who did the top amage and executed all mechanics the right way?
For all we know, some of these ones that roll for transmog contribute LESS then the ones afer upgrardes.
Donât get on the backs of others for things you do, everyone slips up from time to time, I admit , I might have been a bit disrespectful in early posts, but did either of you even THGINK to anser my disrespect with respect?
Respect goes both ways
Tot get respect, you have to give it
Sometimes, you have to be the first to give respect. This one is especially hard if one feels they have been disrespected.
I am only human, but my disrespect in replies might have been to the disrespect, perceived or otherwise, that others gave me. I even put in ideas that both sides could use to show they respect and understand where others are coming from.
That is not what they said at all, they said everyone is entitled to have a CHANCE at the loot, not that everyone is entitled to GET loot. If you can roll, you get the chance, RNG takes it from there.
I am aware thatâs what they said and I am agreeing, so explain how that translates to it being ok to feel entitled to a piece of loot just because your ilvl is lower?