I don’t think it’s generally that overt but yeah the mentality has obviously leaked out of the title chase range.
Generally speaking this is how pug creation goes. I’m not too proud to admit that I’m going to take the best looking thing from my list of applicants and I’d call anyone who was a liar.
It’s not because the 607 can’t handle it. It’s because the 613 makes it easier for me. And this is how everyone approaches it.
inb4 “it’s about providing a higher chance of success to the group/other people”
Except that taking the 613 over the 607 has a higher likelihood of increasing the chance to succeed for the other 4 involved players too. As is taking the best geared in each of the 4 slots you may be looking for.
That’s a secondary consideration. If you succeed the group succeeds. Let’s stop beating around the bush please.
People form groups to maximize their own success. That the group succeeds along with them is essentially an accident. Believe me, if people could form groups in which they succeed and others don’t, they would.
The only fix to this is a shuffle queue where you pick a key level, much like heroic dungeons. Each key level has a minimum iLvl and you get shuffled into a group with random people and hope you can do the key well. Obviously it requires some players to put their key into the queue to be completed or bricked.
Random dungeon, random classes, might have bres, might have hero, might have neither, might have both.
But nobody will do that, because it doesn’t give you the best chance to complete the key, nor does it give you the guaranteed coverage of all the buffs or abilities you may want for your desired outcome. So we’ll be back at square one with people complaining that nothing works.
I think there is some people who have the exact mentality you describe, I’ve spoken to some of them on these forums today. But I think the vast majority of the community enjoy succeeding together, they just get frustrated (salty) when not given the chance to succeed in the first place.
This is the majority mentality especially when it comes to pugs. Please stop lol.
“I’m trying to provide a charity to other gamers” is absolutely the last thing I’m going to believe on the WoW forums.
You do not care about the “saltiness” of people that fail beyond being able to mine that salt. You care about your own chances of success. This approach is comical on this platform imo.
They do. While the vast majority of the community lashes out about their own failures when they don’t succeed together. Fax do be fax.
It’s odd how combative you are when I am mostly agreeing with you, but regardless of that I still believe that the majority of people would not choose to succeed at the failure of everyone else if it were a choice between that and succeeding together, which is what I think you’re implying? I don’t think it’s charity either, for the most part most players will do what’s good for them, of course.
The closest to charity in this game is when high-geared players are a bit bored and queue Normal or Heroic dungeons as a tank or healer just to burn some time. They’re not going out of their way to be good instead of doing dailies, farming, keys etc. They’re serving their own self interest in not being bored, but they’re still doing a good thing? Can’t we at least just see the good and hope for more of it rather than call it selfish?
Paramedics get paid… doesn’t make all of them selfish (I say all cause you just know someone will come in with a story that goes against the grain lol)
Very true, quick to celebrate together but also often quick to turn on each other to play the mini-game ‘Assign the Blame’.
I am not sure how we bridged the gap between “the vast majority prefer to succeed together” and “if the majority could choose their own success while watching others fail, they would” though.
That was a thing I did not contribute to and simply responded to.
Looking at this from an optimistic point of view, Im glad this is the issue. It might humble players enough to think “Wow I really could use other peoples help, Maybe not being toxic and actually being social will help?”
Honestly the old system with more gradual scaling was better and introducing an arbitrary huge step in difficulty at +12 kind of kills pugging at that point, on top of challenger’s peril which is a terrible change.
People criticize the dungeon selection but honestly the affix changes aside from the fort/tyr change are terrible and that’s the main problem. Challenger’s peril sucks and makes things too binary, half of the xal’atath mods don’t work properly or interact with mechanics in dumb ways, and the +12 mod is dumb.
But you said this, so I was a bit confused because I said that a minority would feel this way, and you, reasonably aggressively, corrected me to say that the majority of players are this way. Did I misread?
Are the majority of players selecting people that barely meet gear and rating checks when they have other options or not?
This is a simple yes or no.
Now, those that aren’t pugging are doing it for what reason?
None of these actually math out to trying to help other players, provide group success, or any of your other ideals. They are about the person making the selection and their chances of success. This is the case at all key levels whether pug or otherwise and always will be.
Because they want a higher chance of success with people they know and can communicate with/trust. But also because they might enjoy playing with their friends over people that could be hit or miss socially or from a skill standpoint.
I agree with these points, it’s just that you seemed to imply that given the chance, players would sabotage others to get ahead. This is far more passive and unintentional than that. Again, I may have misread how you wrote it out, but that’s why I replied in that fashion.
