That’s post 69.
I posted that link in post 35.
I posted the detailed conversation for both Horde and Alliance in post 60.
I posted that twice actually. Once on 60 and once on 75.
You never did post that whole transcript despite your claims.
You lied Treng. You have been lying since you found out about this quest.
I’m glad we could gather up the truth here.
The transcript isn’t on that page! I don’t know where you got it. You’ve never linked the place you got the transcript from.
You never linked the transcript.
You claimed you did but you never did.
Same link I gave you. Everything is there if you bother to spend 1 minute to frigging read.
You know what I am done. Talking to you is hopeless.
Bye Felicia.
https://imgur.com/a/mKi2LWS
To note, the transcripts are in the top rated comment on that Wowhead page.
To clarify, none of these statements are true.
This statement is true, as admitted by the Dying Berserkers as part of the quest and Sky-Reaver Korm Blackscar in the completion text.
It’s true if you don’t count the Alliance fleet attacking the Forsaken off of Howling Fjord as instigation, I guess.
Thrall was raised by humans most of his life and failed the Horde Idgaf what he says the Horde is.
As to the OP. No in fact hell no. The Horde should always be led by a Warcheif thats our thing all you are doing is blaming the position for failures of the writing staff anyway.
Doesn’t matter if we have a council or whatever as long as Blizz thinks its okay to villain bat us to create a stupid easy plot instead of something original they will do it.
Hey guys, what’s going on in…
Oh, just Treng shilling his head-canon again.
It would seem that Dranosh Saurfang did not.
Ironically what he (Original post of thread) described was actually the description of the new Horde back in Vanilla.
Some time after that things went very south and Blizzard forgot how they originally wrote Horde, and more to "Why not just throw the old books out the window and go for ‘honour’ hungry pragmatism?" though every time Blizzard attempt to do that they bloody & tarnish another aspect of them. So calling it ‘honour’ I find rather humorous much of the time.
The lore aspects in regards to races, has gone much down track; diverging from values they once use to hold as a bold defining aspect of them; and that’s just the Horde. (Though the amount of retcon to lore that happened in WoD I’m not surprised at much anymore).
— As for the Alliance; honestly everytime there’s room for the Night Elves storyline to grow Blizzard either gets a bunch of Orcs to ruin it or replaces the potential with humans (I’m really sick of the humans - Raining on the rest of the Alliances parade with taking the spotlight).
But I know what you’re going to respond “Horde are evil and always have been!?”, then spiral into a debate we’ve already had so many times - so lets not get into that argument and merely agree to disagree.
That I just find plain simple stupid.
If that’s the case one could say that Archbishop Benedictus AKA 'The Twilight Father’ was the Alliance’s responsibility - To which he amassed forces of the Twilight on a level that rivalled Cho’Gal and assaulted the literal World.
There’s also many others that have become defective in each faction, if we were to list and rival them all, we’d be here for a while. The Horde and Alliance factions aren’t visionaries that cannot tell who amongst them are going to go haywire or against their own. So for that, I don’t blame the Alliance; and do not expect blame on the Horde for such examples either. Arguing against that would be a shear arrogant zeal of hypocrisy.
If you play Horde, you’d know. He isn’t; he has been sceptical from the beginning but constantly held onto the fact she could be reasoned with given her past with their people. He drew the line more vividly recently in the Nazjatar storyline (And late admittedly), but to say they’ve been dandy fine entirely would be incorrect.
Agreed. It’s why I feel Saurfang should still have some share of fallout. He chose to disobey Sylvanas / defect from the Horde - for the wrong reasons. It wasn’t that it didn’t appeal to Honour, it was that it didn’t appeal to his.
Before they do, I kind of hope the Nightelves smash through Horde ranks making them think “Jeeze, that’s dark brutal and humiliating; never thought it’d be like this!?” but perhaps that’s just wishful thinking.
Blizzard will probably have more human potential to ‘Make ezpz Peace’ or ‘Doomsday’ classification of event to intervene.
I don’t follow what this idea has to do with what I said.
They didn’t forget, Metzen moved over to work on Project Titan and the one roadblock the WC2 die-hards faced was gone.
Most of the developers have always wanted the Horde to be a faction of evil villains, hence Garrosh. The WC3 Horde that made players enjoy the Horde pre-Wrath was an aberration in their eyes, just like the Alliance being anything but a human-centered bastion of patronizing morality.
Legit question to you, do you think this is a good way of improving the forsaken?
Read them. Alright. Wish what’s his face would’ve said that.
Yeah, Garrosh’s cronies attacked the Alliance like Garrosh’s cronies always do. Saying this reflects on the entire Horde is headcanon; there are like eighty five books filled with Garrosh telling Thrall he doesn’t care and will do whatever he wants.
No, it isn’t, actually. Varian Wrynn had sworn to kill the Horde in undercity. Then, the Alliance acted in secrecy, not in concert with the Horde, to hide the taking of a strategically important hold. Garrosh was wrong, 100%, but I’d have killed them for it, too.
And somehow strangely ended up exactly like his father, proving that orcs are not that different from Humans.
The Alliance had attempted to conquer Mord’rethar, but a Horde patrol had seen the regiment and successfully prevented its assault…by attacking from the rear. Pinched between the Scourge at their front and the Horde at their back, the Alliance forces had perished—but so had the Horde’s. The Scourge too had suffered losses, but the gate remained under the Lich King’s control.
Blackscar’s forces had deliberately waited until the Alliance soldiers were engaged, then slaughtered them. Thrall’s face contorted as he read the sky-reaver’s words: Though it cost them their lives, their selfless bravery prevented the Alliance from capturing a strategic point. Such courage is worthy of true soldiers of the Horde!
“‘Selfless bravery.’ ‘Courage’ worthy of the Horde.” Thrall nearly spat the words. “And the Scourge still holds the Death Gate. Is that what he wants? Is this what passes for glory among us?”
Garrosh remained uncharacteristically silent, instead looking hard at the wooden chips upon the map. He could almost feel Varok’s eyes boring into his back, and Thrall’s would also soon fall upon him. It was good the Alliance did not hold Mord’rethar; of that Garrosh was certain. Still he continued to stare at the little wooden markers, and late into the night, long after the other commanders had retired to sleep, Garrosh reread Blackscar’s letter.
Such courage is worthy of true soldiers of the Horde!
He summoned a courier. “Send for Sky-Reaver Korm Blackscar of Orgrim’s Hammer,” he said, handing over a scroll. “He is to return to Warsong Hold immediately. Tell him Overlord Hellscream wants to see him.”
Now he stood in the front hall of the citadel he had built, set upon the land he had conquered, awaiting the arrival of Korm Blackscar. Thrall had remained in Northrend. Garrosh was certain he desired to witness how Garrosh handled the sky-reaver.
Shall you be disappointed once again, Warchief?
Blackscar lumbered in through the doorway, looking around in surprise at his audience. Despite the warchief’s presence, he addressed Garrosh. “You requested I return to Warsong Hold, Overlord,” he said. “I’ve honored that request.”
Garrosh held up the missive on the Broken Front. “Here you detail how one of your patrols prevented the Alliance from taking a strategic point against the Scourge.”
Blackscar broke into a wide grin. “That was a piece of work on their part! Is it not glorious?”
Garrosh looked at the report, then back to Blackscar. “No.”
Blackscar’s eyebrows shot up in surprise.
“An ambush on open troops waiting to fight is one thing. To attack a regiment already engaged in battle with another from behind? What would you do next?” Garrosh demanded. “Would you sneak into their camp and poison their water? Would you enslave one of their commanders with magic and force him to murder his troops while they sleep? Would you rain disease upon your enemies, like the Forsaken? Would you fight the way they do?”
Blackscar stuttered, at a loss for words.
“There is no combat but honorable combat, Blackscar.” Garrosh held up the report in front of his face and crumpled it in his hand. “This? This is coward’s work! I will not have cowards among my ranks!”
“Overlord,” Blackscar stammered, “if I have brought shame to our cause, I will leave my post.”
“Do you admit to being a coward? Again: I will not have cowards among my ranks. Prove that you are not one, Blackscar. Go back to Orgrim’s Hammer and lead your soldiers in a manner worthy of the Horde. Should you fail, it is not your resignation I will seek, but your head upon a pike. Now get out of my sight.”
Garrosh did not wait to see Blackscar leave. He strode out of the hall and up the stairs to the top of one of the hold’s bulwarks. Up and down he walked, brows furrowed. He examined the status of the defenses and noted to himself what would need fixing, and who was responsible for letting it lapse.
He turned to walk the wall’s length again, and he started when Thrall was in his path. “Yes, Warchief?”
Thrall eyed him thoughtfully. Garrosh did not like the look on his face.
“I think you handled Blackscar well,” Thrall said. “His soldiers’ actions at the Broken Front were unconscionable, but he is still a strong commander. Our advance into Icecrown would suffer for his loss. You made the right choice.”
Garrosh pushed past him. “He will only get one more chance. I will not have tricksters and deceivers amongst my ranks,” he answered.
“Indeed,” Thrall called after him wryly. “I recall something someone said to me at the top of the Violet Tower not too many weeks ago. ‘A true warchief would never partner with cowards.’”
Garrosh stopped dead in his tracks and slowly turned around. Hearing Thrall quote Garrosh’s own words unsettled him. “I am not the warchief,” he answered after a moment.
Ah, so this is one of those times Garrosh was written out of character. Was Afrasiabi the author?
Sarah Pine, who also wrote In the Shadow of the Sun and Quest for Pandaria and had involvement in the Purge of Dalaran.
I rather enjoyed that one. Well, her work on Garrosh aside, she’s a good author.
That’s not true. The developers haven’t wanted Horde to be a faction of evil villians, they even said at Blizzcon they’re not evil they’re misunderstood. Chris Metzen was an extremist on this notion. I don’t know where the hell you’re getting your source material from.
Zuleika posted this a while back: