It’s not enough but we’ll see. Resto druid hots cost globals and mana. Dispelling then repeatedly isn’t fun for anyone
How are people comparing 1 global that removes 1 magic effect to 1 global that does damage, slows the target, gives you a speed boost, is part of your damage rotation anyway and dispels 3-4 debuffs (vs SP)?
Priests, shamans and mages spamming dispel is annoying to deal with, but right now shadow priests and ele shamans straight up cannot play the game.
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I don’t disagree; I think the rdruid playstyle has been a bit flawed since CC has become more and more pruned. Being able to play CC comps as rdruids in the past definitely helped as a way of covering your weakness to dispels, because you had way more control of the enemy team
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That particular post was a bit of a troll, considering there’s 20+ posts about Judgements of the Pure already up.
But it is also nice to show the other side of the spectrum. Where’s the “Grab your torches and pitch forks, lets delete purge and spellsteal!” posts?
I was very vocal on the 10.0.7 PTR forums about this design making Ret into DH 2.0. I do not agree with these design decisions they made and tried to advocate against a majority of them.
However, Blizzard has repeatedly spoken of “doubling down on strengths and weaknesses” of classes and Ret Paladins has not had a lot of strengths in the past. If you refer to the Ret Paladin Post they made, they stated Ret was struggling in Utility, Mobility, and Survivibility… Ret strengths were tied to burst and burst alone.
Ret needs changes, but deleting a sense of utility that’s given Ret a pretty unique strength is not the answer. Balancing it is.
You play a Hunter, and probably hate getting .0002 sec MD on your traps. Can’t kill anything, right?
I’m sure there’s a warrior out there who hates sitting in Trap Roots and snares just as much as you hate MD.
Most posts I see are a call for complete deletion because the status quo has shifted and “rock” thinks “paper” is OP.
4-set bonus: Judgment increases the damage enemies take from your Holy Power spenders by an additional 5%. Hammer of Wrath applies Judgment to enemies.
Another judgement for ret.
Hm.
The wording almost makes it sound like it could only be the debuff.
If it procs the usual judgment interactions and the honor talent hasn’t been tweaked by then I don’t really know what to make of it.
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Ret is 1 spec out of 33. Thinking you deserve to ruin everybody else’s games because fast nerfs might be overkill, or whatever incoherent reasoning you’re trying and failing to give, is just narcissism. Any spec controlling the entire game this tightly deserves to be gutted as a game health emergency
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Yes, Ret is OP and needs more changes. I’ve posted this before:
Just needs to be an active ability, off the GCD.
Judgements of the Pure
12-20 sec cooldown.Your next Judgement casted on an enemy cleanses all Poison, Disease and Magic effects they have caused on allies within your Aura.
needs a shorter cooldown than mass dispel
needs to remain a paladin “strength.”
Turn it into a defensive Sharpen Blade. Will it be powerful into certain specs? YES. But that’s again, by design. Frost Mage is Powerful into Warrior… Rets now powerful into Ele.
Cycle continues.
I’d be curious to see just how many players simply macro it to judgment.
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Why though, and why does it need to be off global
“skilled” players will use it when needed. Bad players can macro it into the ability and be treated as a X cooldown nerf.
Win-win
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Those globals also don’t do damage so it can’t really be compared to just a rotational ability that does damage while also nullifying your opponents consistently
But shutting down specific healers was problematic and something the game has been struggling with design wise since Rdruids used to deal with purge spam by having high CC comps available which just aren’t a thing they’ve been able to play. Still they haven’t had auto losses into those comps either. The severity of the ret issue right now is pretty unreal.
There isn’t anything you can play that doesn’t involve a ret paladin into one.
No because your team can realistically prevent that from happening, both sides have to actively work together to shut down MDs and there’s far more counterplay than just JoTP. MD is manageable in far more ways by teams because you know exactly when it will happen and that allows people to prepare for it.
You can’t really kill ret paladin teams in the same way, they aren’t losing in cross CC windows and they have lots of way to delay or disrupt goes while their opponents even want to cross CC them. Also just getting a trap removed isn’t the only problem with JoTP.
Rets right now counter comps that want to 100-0 burst you, they counter high CC comps, they counter debuff based specs (shadowpriests, destro locks, uhdks, etc.), they counter comps that want to pad damage, they also shut down comps that rely on keeping up damage the entire game and generating momentum with CCs
There is just no weakness to rets in any way shape or form and JoTP is where they should get looked at first before anything else.
Ret paladins basically got almost every strength of having a prot paladin in shadowlands without having Blessing of the Ancient Queen
Are we all forgetting the reason prot paladins got a healer tag in the first place in shadowlands?
Rets were weaker in 10.0.5 which is fair, but I’m also sick of this notion that ret has sucked for years when we look at Shadowlands Season 4 even we can see that:
A ret was the highest rated player on the NA ladder
The first shuffle tournament was won by a ret paladin
The runner ups in the overall AWC and the NA AWC champions Kawhi frequently played Ret Rogue in tournaments
Ret warrior had strong ladder representation and was a top tier composition
Idk it’s just wild. This mechanic is beyond game-ruining right now. You literally cannot play 3s without a ret paladin, and they’re even more broken in shuffle when there isn’t excellent coordination. What exactly is meant to be the weakness of this spec? JoTP has to go
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That’s not what I asked
Why does that need to exist at all, given the massive reach ret’s other utility already offers
Because it’s “double downing” on a particular strength. Which the overall design goal.
It gives Ret a unique niche of being a anti-cc / support role.
Why does MD need to exist? Why does Grounding need to exist?
I see nothing convincing here. The overall design goal is already anti cc and support by heavily diluting the value I get by cc’ing your healer given how hard you are to kill personally and how hard your external cooldowns make it to kill your codps
Ret needs balancing. I’m not denying that in any way shape or form. But historically Ret has been under preforming in a “strengths” department that isn’t overtuned burst.
Yes, in SL Ret was surprisingly good, but historically that hasn’t always been the case.
Its not to justify it being OP now, but to express that it feels amazing to be brought for something other than damage.
I would rather Ret be balanced and wanted because they counter CC comps, then because they “bring big dam.” (which historically has been the case)
Dude this is nowhere near a fair comparison
Dude they had this role in WoTLK and it worked then because of the overall game design and larger amounts of control but the game is no longer designed to fit into a dps having a consistent defensive magic dispel, let alone one that isn’t even a defensive global of their own
The amount of CC in the game is lower and is continuing to get lower in 10.1 and the current design of ret paladin would only get far more oppressive in the future patch considering they’re just a walking terminator, they prevent their team from being bursted down, rotted down, prevent their team from being in crowd control, and have the best burst in the game
The only spec that can 100-0 ret teams are ret paladins man, they need a weakness.
Spellwarding and short wings were already massive buffs to rets overall utility, JoTP is just complete overkill when we’ve made your spec defensively stronger and your burst windows far more consistent
Besides BfA what history man
What history could you possibly mean
Rets were fantastic in Legion, WoD, and even MoP
Not to mention they were insane in Cata and WoTLK
Like what does this even mean?
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Spellwarding was a mistake, I 100% believe that. Same with 20 yard range on TV, same with Healing Hands and FoL talent not sharing a choice node.
The designers don’t know what they are doing with Paladins and it’s very evident.
But we have somehow fallen into a very unique niche of anti-cc, I think that’s a better option to explore, to try and balance, then just delete the talent and up the damage, and go back to hurrrdurrr burst.
Yes, it’s a different gaming mechanic, I’m not trying to be a d*** here, but times change. The whole PvP System is getting an unbelievable shift in 10.1.
I give up with you flat earthers
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Wanting to explore and attempt to balance a new mechanic that’s been a problem for less than TWO WEEKS > out right deletion.
I don’t get why that’s such a hard thing to grasp.