I can’t posts links, but you can google Dark Shamanism and see the sources on Wowpedia. There are Troll and Tauren Dark Shamans. And the in-game book The Old Wizard’s Almanac says Centaurs use a dark, perverted form of shamanism.
I mean, the Emerald Dream itself is a titan creation. It’s a network of nature magic that was created when the Titans put Ysera into an eternal trance, causing a dreamscape to form around her of Azeroth how it would be if no intelligent life had come to inhabit it. This dreamscape is artificial but regulates Azeroths evolutionary path and growth, this is not to say that Druids do not have an important place in nature but their relation to it is fundamentally different.
One does not alter the dream, they make ripples, but the underlying elements of the Dream reassert themselves, instead one enters the dream and the dream acts as guide for those who can tap into it. In this way a druid is being led by the dream to do natures will, but he does not have command of it. As Malfurion would say, to stand in the way of nature…even when it is destructive…is heresy.
Orcs, by contrast as able to attune to spirit precisely because of their relation to Grond and the destruction of the evergrowth. Their world experienced a flush of new life from spirit energy bursting from both Grond and the Evergrowths corpses, causing Dreanor to flourish. The Shamantic orcs then used this spirit energy to speak with the elements dwelling in the shadow of Gronds corpse.
This life energy is called the Spirit of the Wild, and it’s fundamentally different from the dream. Unlike the Dream it does not guide you in that sense, it allows you to communicate with the elements, with yourself. In fact the orcs themselves are a product of spirit energy, where that life force gradually turned the stone of their forebears into flesh over time.
Nature in the WoW universe is not merely the forests alone. It’s fire, wind, water, and earth, something that the races of Azeroth have not been able to draw upon with the same ease as the Orcs who were made from it.
Different doesn’t mean inferior… and saying the dream is “artificial” is… a bit dishonest. You could say that it’s regulatory role makes things “less natural” but at the same time, Dreanor’s creation, and the very existence of the Orcs, is because A Titan saw to prevent the natural domination of the Everygrowth, which makes the Botani the only race that actually stands for anything truly natural.
I think you are just overthinking it, which is typical of you. What constitutes as “Natural” in WoW is very different than what constitutes as natural IRL. in WoW… it just means it’s derivative of the Primordial force of Life.
Inferior? No, but it is tapping into something that other races do not have the same expertise with. It’s not really something you even have to do that much thinking about: The orcs were made of the primal elements of wind, water, air, and fire as a result of that and being suffused with life force they can speak to the spirit of the Wild where other races could not do so as easily.
I wouldn’t really know how else to describe the Dream, it’s not a thing that naturally occurs on worlds. It is in essence the Titans playground and was used to shape Azeroth, much as the Titans shaped everything else they came into contact with in the cosmos.
Nature just means it is derivative of the primordial force of life.
As were Earthen, Mechagnomes, and Vrykul…. made from Azeroth’s own crust. There is nothing to suggest that orcs are more connected to the elements than any other race.
Well they weren’t made by the spirit of life, those creatures were…altered…by the old gods with the ‘curse’ of flesh, and thus made into what they were.
And sure we can go with nature just being a derivative of the primordial force of life, but the Spirit of the Wild is the truest expression of that force. It is literally pure life energy without any other tampering that naturally exists in all living and even unliving things.
Neither were orcs, technically.
Says who?
The Emerald Dream is pure life energy.
Orcs were explicitly made not from a curse, but from spirit energy specifically suffusing their bodies. When the Evergrowth died, the sporemounds released a massive explosion of this life energy onto the Orcs forebears, which was enough that it turned their stone to flesh.
As for the Emerald Dream, yes it is pure life energy but it is pure life energy that has been shaped by the titans and crafted to regulate Azeroth. The Spirit of the Wild, or just ‘Spirit’ exists everywhere, in everything, and orcs being a race with a surplus of spirit, on a planet with harmonious elementals, let them figure out ways to work with that spirit that other races simply did not.
Technically the Sporemounds fusing to the Titan Creation Grond, and the Sporemounds were a parasitic force that perverted the Spirit of Life.
Who are naturally occurring and have a command over the Primordial force of Life.
This is wrong.
Not really, it had a Fifth element, the Evergrowth, which was parasitic and dominating everything, which is why Aggramar intervened, which without his intervention, the Orcs would never exist.
The orcs are not more connected to Nature than other races, there is nothing that says that in the lore, and is purely a far reaching speculation on your part.
This is explicitly stated to not be the case in Chronicles, as much as I hate the Honor Horde the cosmology is absolute. The World Soul on Azeroth consumed our spirit, and because we didn’t have as much spirit to work with the elements on our planet are wild and uncontrolled. Which fits Azeroth’s Elemental Lords pretty well, they are considerably more violent and destructive then Dreanors, even capable of allying with the old gods.
In relation to the sporemound and the evergrowth, they did not pervert the Spirit of Life, they hoarded it and greedily so. Aggramar did not want to purge it because it was some sort of corruption, it was because the Evergrowth had grown too powerful and was going to actively consume the world, and then itself. Not unnatural, just out of control.
This is why Shamanism is iconic to orc kind, they have a rich background steeped in the elements of Dreanor that gave rise to a long and detailed culture of communion with those elements.
No its not, you are completely speculating that orcs are more connected to nature and the elements than any other race, which is objectively not true.
I am saying they are more connected to Spirit, Nature in WoW is more complex then just the fifth element. But it DOES mean that they do have a strong connection to nature.
I personally find this nonsensical given…well everything the orcs DO, but that’s the lore. You can say Thrall is a Metzen self insert but he is the strongest shaman to ever exist, Shamanism is as a consequence iconic to his race, and as of Chronicles they have an explicit connection to the elements that others do not have.
As a consequence the only thing you can really do is separate the Elemental forces of the universe from the grass, the trees, the birds and bees. Shamnism being Shamanism and thus primarily dealing with those elemental forces then can at the same time be part of a warlike deforesting race and still be attuned to a form of ‘nature’.
Like i’m not anymore happy about it then you, but what are we gonna do about it?
Which is speculation
Its the primordial force of life.
But not necessarily stronger than any other race.
Your speculated lore
He could be an extraordinary individual and his race having nothing to do with it.
That is not explicitly said.
The Elements are fundamentally different than the Primordial force of life.
This makes sense.
This does not.
Look, the lore is nonsense. I can see it’s nonsense, I am looking at the words and letters and I would like to say that hacking down a dozen trees with a goblin shredder would endanger their connection to nature.
It…doesn’t…though.
And it’s because of WC3, and indeed because of Thrall, that orcs have gotten such an expansive lore when it comes to their shamantic roots. Even if I want to, covering my eyes and saying that isn’t there, doesn’t stop it from being there.
I am not saying they don’t have shamanistic roots, I am saying they don’t have any stronger connection to it than any other race, because that is not explicitly said anywhere in the lore. It is simply said they have a strong connected, not a strongER connection… You are making that leap without cause.
You are also blurring the lines between the Elements and Nature, which is not the same thing.
Well they are made of the elements, formed by that same fifth element they commune with turning those elements to flesh, and generally have the most prominent Shaman in the setting. Could that mean they have the same level of elemental connection as other races? It could, but it doesn’t look that way.
And unfortunately the Elements became intrinsically tied to nature when Chronicles tied Spirit and the Elementals at the hip, and in doing so made it so you have to use the spirit of the Wild to actually commune with the Elements.
They don’t really commune with spirit… They commune with the spirits of the Ancestors, but there are not spirit elementals to commune with.
But that is pure speculation on your part. Nothing says so explicitly, so we can’t say that with any degree of certainty.
This isn’t true. Spirit is an element, but it is its own element separate from the Primordial Force of life.
You actually don’t… The elements can be communed with individually. If anything, this MIGHT imply that Druidism is a form of Spirit Shamanism, as it is communing with Nature Gods in exchange for command over their domain. But, this is speculation that isn’t confirmed anywhere.
Spirit is required to talk to the elements, it is using your ‘heart’ to speak to them. This is why the sixth element, Decay, can be used to bind and control them as it’s opposite in Dark Shamanism. Regular Shamanism however constantly relies on the spirit of life to speak to the elements, which is why they can sense life even in ‘unliving’ stone.
Which is why for example, when food was growing scarce for the Frostwolf Clan Thrall was able to commune with a stag and convince it to lay down it’s life. By using ‘heart’ they are able to-
…
Shaman are literally a rip off of Captain Planet.
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Spirit is an element all on its own, as is Decay. Your examples only reaffirm my theory that Druidism is a form of Spirit Shamanism, and Dark Shamanism is essentially Necromancy.
But again, none of this is explicitly stated, so it is purely speculation.
Thrall is an Orc raised on Human principles.
Horde doesn’t need him. They need real Orcs like Eitrigg or Grommash or old school Saurfang… not this new, mopey Saurfang.
Geya’rah for Warchief.