We are at least allowed to regain our moral integrity after we lose. Have values and reasons to fight for that extend beyond “because the Warchief says so”. Maybe the Orcs still need resources from Night elf lands after having been diminished for years living in a desert. Maybe the Zandalari still seek vengeance for their fallen king. Maybe the Tauren hold the dwarves accountable for the desecration of their ancestral lands in the barrens.
Motivations that are at least understandable and can be seen as well within the realm of reason from multiple perspectives, not just that of those races. A basic conflict of interests is all the Horde needs to justify its’ actions, not just “because the Alliance exists”, so we have to fight them. Have the our characters be motivated by the betterment of the faction and their peoples’, so that they can be seen as heroes from the perspective of an average Horde player. Not just out of a pure, unadulterated, fandom for those said characters.
Also on an completely unrelated note, we need Jorin Deadeye and Thura as new Orc champions in the next expansion plz.
what would it mean for the Horde to “lose”?
Is it an actual gut wrenching event like Teldrassil or Theramore done by Alliance or Tyrande… or is Nathanos or Thrall just telling us “Oh yeah we are totally losing. Woe is us.”
If it would be handled realistically the Horde wouldn’t exist after the defeat, especially let’s not forget that it would be the second one. It would be better if Sylvanas would turn evil before it happens and that the Alliance and the Horde would fight against her.
This … depends on how things go. Blizzard has never been particularly good at rebuilding the Horde after breaking it; they’d likely just “move-on” without much consideration to the process (because its not flashy or destructive). That being said … I’m uncertain exactly what the point of instilling justifications for Horde contempt towards the Alliance if the Horde is rendered into a position where it can never act upon those feeling?
The Horde Power Fantasy is already FAR weaker than the Alliance’s. Giving them a hit like the one you’re suggesting (while simultaneously giving more reason for the Alliance to wipe out the Horde with a bunch of angry, desperate savages glaring at them) … seems REALLY counter-intuitive if what you want is the Horde to rebuild itself. The Horde would effectively be powerless to stand in opposition to the Alliance in any meaningful way.
On the other hand … Jorin Deadeye, Jevan Grimtotem, and Mida Silvertongue are the characters I MOST want future major developments for.
If the orcs still need resources from nelf lands after all this time of owning Azshara and Stonetalon, to say nothing of all the other lumber rich places now part of the Horde, then orcs are basically a race of sentient woodchippers.
The dwarves’ actions against the tauren were immediately answered with blood for blood, in both Classic and then Cata, the dwarven presence completely wiped out. Any more vengeance has already been taken ten times over via the Horde war machine. Certainly the tauren can hold grudges still, but that doesn’t exactly scream moral integrity.
Zandalari I’ll grant you, they’re a proud people and their king was revered, it makes sense for them to hold a grudge even if ‘peace’ happens between the two factions.
That said, given how the writers have been saying that the Horde populace still supports Sylvanas, and the Burning, regaining any sort of moral integrity is going to ring somewhat hollow. Realistically no sane person would leave the Horde alone to ‘find itself’ if the chance of another Burning were present.
Of course, we’ll be getting a peaceful ending anyway, so your wish will more than likely be granted.
I have this horrible gut feeling that the reason that THIS was put into the game (along with Lor’themar genuinely being worried his own people wouldn’t follow him in his decision to back Saurfang and Thrall) is just Blizz futher reinforcing the concept that Sylvie is Ogmot’s Laughing Shepherd (they’re blind sheep being led off a cliff; even as they hit the rocks … they never doubted her). The Sylvie boot very well come down on the Horde hard soon here.
That would make sense, because it would heap more of the blame on her, and paint the Horde as being tricked by someone they had faith in and thus it ‘wasn’t their fault’. Ergo whatever happens, the Horde has a scapegoat and an out.
There’s no reason for the Horde to lose in BfA. All they need to do is cut off the tumor that is the toxic Sylvanas element, and they’ll be as good as new.
I am questing through Stonetalon and just now I finished a quest called “Last Ditch Effort”
These are the words the NPC left me with. "Do you know why the Horde destroys? The Horde destroys because they cannot comprehend beauty. They fear it and that which they fear they must destroy. Why else would they destroy Thal’darah Grove?
Together, we will make them understand. They will know that what they do comes at a great cost."
Yeah the Horde needs to lose big time and finally face the consequences of their actions.
The Horde’s conflict inducing need for lumber/food (much like Westfall’s issue with food shortage) always seemed so terribly contrived to me. In a world where there’s regularly the ability magically grow trees or conjure things out of essentially nothing.
The horde will both win and lose. They will spikt into civil war with the sarufang real horde winning against the sylvanas evil horde. The alliance will help and then iffectully slap them on the wrists.
I think the Horde outright losing is the least probable outcome because logically they would be gone. It’s far more likely that both sides will exhaust each other until they are incapable of continuing the conflict.
I would love for the Horde to actually get a win that the writers will let us feel good about before we wrap it up, but it seems like everyone is going to be neutered next patch and we will be back to holding hands until our next warchief gets bludgeoned with the villain bat.
I dont think blizzard should ever attempt an event like Teldrassil again, at least not with one factuon perpetrating it against the other. From an outside threat could be acceptable. They simply do not have the story telling acumen or finesse to pull off something so large and divisive. It isnt the event itself, its the lead up that makes it believable, or in this case not believable. I do think it could have been done, but this was a very poor showing on how to go bout it. It could have been done worse but i reeeeally dont want to tink about that.
An attack like theramore is much more likly and acually doable for the narrative team. It doesnt require the nuance. One major thing to consider is the respective vaule of the target. The night elf capitol is so much more important, not just because it is a capitol and a starting zone, but because of the massive lore significance. Theremore just isn’t as important in those aspects comparatively. It lacks the classification of capitol and although important lore wise its just not as important especially to the race its tied to, human.
A little bit of quest text suggesting a loss or that a side is losing is a cop-out and an insult to both factions.
On to the OP, i feel that the stage was set for the horde to lose from the very instant war of thorns started and its not going to be a good story for either faction. If the horde does manage to get more characters developed its a win. Horde is sorely lacking characters, especially those with any actual power. We got plenty of dudes to swing axes, but thats it. Night elves do have the charcaters to lose but WoT was not the way to do it.
I mean the horde getting a big win drpends on which horde we are talking about. The next biggest win the sylvanas horde could have is destroying another alliance zone.
True. It needs to be balanced since Sylvie winning means the Alliance is gone, Alliance winning means the Horde is gone. I think (as much as it pains me to say it) the “Honor Horde” winning is the only way we are going to return to the status quo that Blizz seems to love so much.
It could leave the night elves as wild cards but who knows.
I doubt it they are setting up everything the same as well the alliance has made ot clear or anduin has that sylvanas is the only target. The alliance will likely stop the war once she is gone and yes they will all obey the boy king becsusr blizz can’t write.
![:skull:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/skull.png?v=6" ":skull:")
I wanted to hope they would write a coherent ending but you’re probably right tbh