I’d rather the Horde lose if

Umm… look, im gonna say this unironically-im not mocking you, not being sarcastic, nor am i trying to start anything like last thread.

But you do realize Anduin “goodest boi” Wrynn is the High King, right?

No joke the kid has been reduced to a plot device to neuter, defang everyone around him and make sure the alliance can never pull the trigger on the horde.

He even wants to help everyone heal, rebuild and shalala shalala once this is done.


Yep the alliance will never finish off the hirde they are just to much of good boys and girls to do such a thung.


Anduin will give them free hugs after they manage to save thunder bluff together :slight_smile:


they failed to do that with theramore itself what makes you think that they will do it right this time?
like, sure,all of that was basically all for jaina’s arc but if you think about it, in a narrative level they still destroyed one of the alliance cities who in wc3 could be considered the new alliance capital if stormwind wasn’t randomly rebuilded.
they also make sure that we didn’t have our revenge on the horde, in fact we help them to regain their city and asking nothing in return not even speaking about they didn’t even let us kill garrosh because apparently thrall was the one who had to do it “for the horde”.
so i am sorry if i doubt that the writers can do that “right”.

hell, we may even do that again and let me tell you, i think that i speak for many when i say that i would just quit the game before they repeat the same dumb story with the alliance helping the horde. without making them pay.

1 Like

I’m just operating under the assumption that if the Alliance won again and Anduin tried to do nothing that someone with an actual brain would step in. Because that kid is so out of his depth as a wartime leader.


Somone with a brain in the alliance now there is a joke i mean somone in the alliance doing something proactive they never do that only villains do that they must purely react.

1 Like

Give people what they want and let Jaina/Tyrandae/the Vindicaar blow up huge chunks of Orgrimmar. Let a bunch of NPCs and civilians die. Make it terrible.

Then in the next patch, jump forward a bit and let it be rebuilt the same way they redesigned Orgrimmar/expanded Stormwind so the two can maybe be a little closer in detail. Expand on the architectural influences. Add little details like spirit shrines, a proper graveyeard and docks, a library with scrolls/stone tablets, and an arena that doesn’t look like someone’s in the middle of packing/unpacking for a move. Oh, and chairs, or at least cushions to sit on!

…I really just want Orgrimmar to see more improvements.


Teldrassil is the largest narrative disaster in wow imo. Theramore was rocky but it managed to go down okay by the end. There was at least some morally grey response by jaina. Overall it had been handled better by this point in the story, not great, just better. Even if they dont manage to do it any better than bombing of theramore was handeled much better thanthe burning of Teldrassil by this point. They were honest from the begining with garrosh, he was the bad guy. They didnt play this subverting expectations game and claim that he had some grand scheme for the horde like they are with sylvanas.

On a nararive level camp T was destroyed, but its not the same as theramore. Just like theramore is not the same as Teldrassil. Wc3 could consider the city to be any number of things, but at no point in the history of wow was it designated a capitol and it has never housed a starting zone.

It is definitely hard to compare events going on now, while they are still in the process of unfolding, to MoP which we have the whole arc to look out all the way to its conclusion. Even if this is looking like a 2.0. What we can do is make the comparison of theramore and Teldrassil and theramore is not at the same level.

Dont act like the alliance suffer alone here. None of the charcters from eother faction make any decisions with rational or foward thinking. Just because blizzard constantly tells us a charcter is smart doesnt mean its true.


Oh if you read other posts i dont everyone suffers from a casr of plot induced stupidity. My coomrnt was more a joke on the highly reactionary nature of the alliance.


Imagine the end to bfa, sylvanas is defeated and the horde lay down their arms. And yin accepts their surrender and allows the horde to return home. But then tyrande last of the Mohicans the unarmed and defeated horde and slays all the men women children in the refuge column…

There you go.

1 Like

Until Blizz decides that a good story matters both factions will continue suffer.


I want before the Siege of Mulgore for the Alliance army to show up on the cliff mid battle between the Rebels and Forsaken in a parallel to Broken shore and Wrath gate and just bomb both forces with Plague they had captured from Lordearon or just turn and leave them to fight it out while the Alliance goes after Orgrimmar and Sylvanas directly.

1 Like

You can both be victorious and regain moral integrity. A change of leadership won’t do away with what’s been done, but a Warchief that better represents the tribes & clans of the Horde can lead the Horde into a future that they want to go into.

Something specific to politics is that the court can replace its leadership. The people that make up the court actually have say over resources like the military, law enforcement, treasury, what have you, whereas the King (or, in this example, the Warchief), only tells them what to do and rewards them by paying them with the treasury they control. Nothing happens if the machine refuses to work, no matter how hard someone presses the button to try and make it work.

Now, there’s an entirely different segment on replacing members of the court to answer to the leader’s commands, but that’s a sister topic that’s not immediately important to the overall topic.

The point is, the stakes are way too high to accept defeat. In the Horde’s interests going forward, it can start a change in leadership, but the war has to be won, or in a position where the enemy can’t take advantage of political turmoil. Otherwise, the consequences of defeat would be so staggeringly high that the Horde seeking to change itself from within won’t matter, because there won’t be a Horde.

1 Like

I am not sure how the stakes for the horde are too high. I may have missed the cenimatic where andui said “screw it lets kill them all” but he and those with him just want sylvanas gone.

1 Like

Anduin is one guy and does not represent the wants of the entirety of the Alliance in anything other than politics.

Teldrassil was a genocide event. An Alliance victory would allow them to tax the Horde into oblivion in both wealth and resources, execute every ranking member of the military they can charge a crime with, plant people that they deem acceptable to their agendas for leadership (many would say they are already attempting so with Baine) and all but destroy the Horde.

This does not start and stop with Sylvanas. Saurfang ordered the march, its army carried out the attack and the damage is already done. The Horde doesn’t need to win, persay, but it cannot be put in a position where it can possibly be dealt the deathblow, for the sake of a continued Alliance & Horde narrative.


This is blizzard writting it has nothing ro do with hiw things would go in real life. The secind sylvanas is gone the alliance will compketly forgive the horde and the hirde being rulled by a friend of anduin wont get any taxes or demands beyond dont be evil.

Blizzard wants to get rid of the hirde alliance conflict so they wont punish the horde all th ef blame will go to sylvanas and when she is gone the hirde will be redermed and still be of equal strength to the alliance


Just because they’re not willing to put in the critical thought about how politics and military action overlap, doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t. It’s a story board. We like critical thought. It’s our jam.

They didn’t think about the implications of genocide, revolts in the middle of a war, skullduggery such as twisting up Saurfang to make him a patsy and praying on the emotionally compromised Baine, so here we are, but with the puzzle pieces put on the table by the story itself, it can be used to assemble a horrendously bad picture for the overall narrative.


Yeah i am just saying your worries won’t manifest as blizz would never do things like thst they like big spectical events not realistic issues.

The way they are likelt to do it is declare a sylvanas horde and a real horde the real horde with help will beat the sylvanas horde and the hirde will have technically won

I mean if we apply thought to it sylvabas should just blight everything that stuff is unstopable


I feel like rebuilding the Horde at this point is going to be difficult. It’s not hard to see why the developers have a hard time figuring out the Horde’s identity, when it’s got about eight or nine of them.

I think the issue with rebuilding at this point, is that it’s going to be increasingly difficult to hand-wave some of the racial composition of the Horde.

Belves and Forsaken never really made a lot of sense in the Horde, but one can argue they diversified it. Goblins were a natural fit. Pandaren weren’t a bad fit and probably serve better as the voice of reason in the Horde than the Tauren do, if the Pandaren were allowed to do anything.

Nightborne joining the Horde finally gave the belves an ally they could depend upon and be close to, in a faction that otherwise never made much sense for them to join. Highmountain Tauren and Mag’har both fit in fine.

It’s the Zandalari that have become a bit of a sticking point, I think.

The Zandalari feel like a perfect fit for the Horde until you realize they are a civilization with more history and power than the Horde ever had. The resources of their island are vast, and the favor of Loa makes them quite powerful. By all accounts the Zandalari should be leading the Horde.

Except you’ve got belves and Pandaren who have been in the Horde much longer, and who have some pretty bad history with the Zandalari. How these three races don’t have more racial tensions is mind-boggling.


id rather nzoth wins