why remove it ?
some hybrids are straight up broken as far as having tons of cc/ heals / burst
is it possible to fix a few (wont name them too many REEEE players here)…
It’s frankly not obvious to me hybrids are better than non-hybrids on average, or that there are any extreme outliers?
The only unreasonably good hybrid spec right now is necro feral, and their strengths have fairly little to do with either cc or offhealing.
Every hybrid is disgusting and turns games into pve fests waiting for dampening just as much as passive soulbinds, intervene, and triune ward does.
Enhance in turbo shouldn’t be healing the way they do, feral shouldn’t be healing as it does, ret shouldn’t be healing the way it does. Spriest slows down games a lot especially in other lame trip healer type comps like owlplay. Ele sham can abuse the earth shield resto legendary extremely hard.
It’s not a matter of outliers it’s widespread and even at the level of overpoweredness where the most broken offenders like ret can actually just heal through mindgame’s threshold at low hp.
Almost every single comp played in this meta is 1-2 hybrids outside of RMX and Warrior Mage x, Mage Lock, and TSG. Whether it’s JGL, Ret war, Turbo, Ele Mage, Godcomp, Warrior Spriest, or not as frequent comps like owlplay, shadowplay, feral mage, kitty cleave, and prot paladin comps.
DPS should never be doing similar or even greater healing done than their overall damage done. Let alone it being possible for hybrids to be doing 50-70% of the healing of their actual healer. Hybrid healing should be less than a third of damage they are doing and even in a game where they are healing a lot it should be a a third of what there real healer is doing or less.
Otherwise you get into this territory of double/trip healer comps where it just feels like there’s multiple prot paladin specs in the game unless it was designed around 3dps type comps where prot paladin was still hated, but halfway made sense as a different type of healer.
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haha any of u guys remember bfa rmpal and how completely impervious to dying they were while hybrids were largely incapable of healing from s2 onward outside of tank trinkets and feral
assa rogues just pressing feint and vial off cd woooo yeah guys wooo cant die here haha
anything with a mage on their team is an auto damp fest
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Because with a hybrid tax, hybrids were purposefully balanced to be worse in every single role, and that felt bad, especially in PvE group/raid content.
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It’s actually disgusting.
Just check out the last NA finals for AWC
Hybrids man… Broken.
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I’ve been living a lie all this time. Contemplation cc’s myself, add hoj to that and ret has so much cc.
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seems like since legion they really doubled down on solo content to break the “raid of die” mentality for casuals which forces them to make classes a lot more durable / self sufficient
bad design that leads to bad pvp though unfortunately
durability passives, hybrid healing, triune/intervene
all incredibly bad for the game
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man what? ret’s got 99 problems but it’s nowhere near the most broken offhealing, ret and feral both put wog hps and burst healing in the ground
nahj voice: out of like 15 meta comps there are 2-4 good options that don’t have an offhealer…is every single spec except rogue broken or is keeping your healer out of the cc chains of rogue teams or mage teams for the scant couple seconds it takes to die to burst so uphill that having a 2nd healer is the most convenient stopgap? really makes u think
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god that flannel looks so good on a dark iron buddy
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I feel like with limited forms of cc drs there just aren’t enough ways to make classes unique without things like off healing.
That said I believe necro ferals and rets are broken. But rets are broken because 25k final verdicts are a total meme and necro ferals are immortal.
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biggest issue with hybrid healing becomes blatantly clear when u play classic
- too easy to achieve healing
- mana bar not mattering
- overall just not enough limitations in place (like pushback, downtime, etc etc)
- powerful cds or when used in conjunction with cds
I kinda like this take on it TBH; the take here , not the actual events.
This seems like a plausible theory; though I think what we’re seeing is a bit less reasonable when we’re talking about instant offheals for the amounts that they’re doing… There’s just not much room for counterplay in this case. Largely, I don’t think people would have the same issues (at least to the same extent) with hybrid healing if it were hardcasted and therefore disruptable/deniable. I’m sure it’s a bit overtuned in either case (to varying extents across all/most hybrids), but being both instant and this impactfully tuned makes for extremely hard-to-punish and low-quality gameplay.
But having infinite resets conduit is fine?
Hybrid healing is a bit too strong but if u wanna do it your way, then purely dps classes shouldnt be able to heal or absorb anything.
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Actually made a thread about this awhile ago, but yes I agree hybrid heals are much to powerful right now.
Hybrid heals were pretty bad in bfa yes this is true. BUT, warlocks had a lot of passive healing, and DK deathstrike was way over tuned, in conjunction with passive tank trinkets, Id say the DPS healing in bfa was out of control.
Was odd, somehow the specs that couldn’t heal somehow immortal gods, a ton through tank trinkets and things like feint like you mentioned.
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Just watch wotlk gameplay for like 5 mins and you realize design in general is absurdly backwards
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I mean not entirely wrong but there was also a lot of insta cast healing then too
It existed but the risk/reward for everything was well balanced. Instants were either more inefficient or less potent than casts. You could get away with casting minimally, but casts were more rewarding to get off
Also overall risk/reward of almost every action is very well balanced. The game isn’t perfect by any means but the depth and mindset behind class design is so above what we have now it’s quite sad
WoTLK depth/pacing also just flat out farms TBC, clearly feels like an xpac for that reason as well.
Edit: If you understand hunter PoV even just watching clips from here shows how behind we are in many ways:
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I mean sort of. I don’t really know how much off healing other specs besides ret had. Art of war made flash of light insta cast and then you just pressed sacred shield (had no cd he hehexd) and that would be about a wog with wings rn. Or just seal of light judgement of light would be like 30-40% of hp. Maybe other specs were like what you said, cause Rets only wall that didn’t cause forbearance was like 20%.
Oh ye huge agree
Rets had some of the better off healing but that was sort of their strength in comparison to other hybrids. They were full on support mode. No interrupt, just insta hoj/rep on long CDs, blessings/magic dispel and good heals. Pmuch their strength, wasn’t a bad thing
Spriest more rot pressure/control/mass dispel, had to be concerned about mana. Shamans were more focused on disruption/bringing lust. Ferals super based around control/mobility, their off healing was ok but mana restraints ofc existed. It’s pretty well thought out across the board
Even in current wow it’s fundamentally more broken for ferals to have good healing when you consider the rest of their kit than ret paladins. You kinda have to base it on what else each hybrid brings.
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