That didn’t take long 
Still no word on our survivability either.
This is what I found.
The funniest thing is they gave MM Hunters their one-shot back, but that isn’t even on the radar. I’m happy for MM Hunters, but sad for BM.
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Ah.
I found it.
https://blog.discourse.org/2018/06/understanding-discourse-trust-levels/
It’s the actual discourse (the framework of the new forums) website itself. I’m not sure where I picked up the 5 limit thing, it’s not listed here either. Might be a misinterpretation of one of the stipulations for tl3, or I heard it from one of the former CMs I talk to on occasion? Not sure.
It’s worth mentioning that tl4 is considered staff/mods.
QEhxKDs
Here ya go. It summarizes all changes to MM Hunter I proposed.
Reported
=)
No one do this, please
the fun part is that it de-incentivizes good behavior at that point
This, a thousand times this.
Just put it on an image-hosting site and then put the link in code here, or without the “https:/” part.
EDIT: Yes, you will have the permissions… because if you post it without the header, it won’t even be recognized as a link, just plain text. Likewise, if you put it in a code block (via Ctrl-E), it won’t count as a link.
In both cases, people can’t left-click to go straight there, but they can highlight it, right click, and select “Go to…” for nearly the same convenience.
I tried. It says I don’t have perms to post it.
This is the imgur link. If you can post it, give it a shot. I will note that I should update it a little, as one of the talents has text I added late… to the wrong talent.
Good.
Darn. I was looking forward to being able to build towards net rewards for Multi-DoTing.
If you put reverse hyphens before and after the link, it removes the hyperlink portion, and greys it out
for example;
www.google.com
you can then just copy and paste it
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I can’t get it to work from the imgur link. Just write out the full link, select that part of the text, and hit Ctrl-E.
https://imgur.com/gallery/QEhxKDs
Like so.
(No, the sample link above doesn’t work, even though it should have, unless you’ve since taken your post down and reuploaded.)
https://imgur.com/a/QEhxKDs
Ah, that’s because you forgot the /a/ bit. Here you go, fixed.
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Okay, so there's a lot to unpack here, so I'll be brief for now:
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The Likely Problems
If the sustainability/survivability problem isn’t unique to MM (e.g., from having cast times), the solution shouldn’t be unique to it either. Even if I assume that every spec gets their own way to deal with that, some of these solutions would pigeonhole MM into certain builds.
If the node is to be obligatory, it needs to be higher up. Else you end up with reduced build freedom and having made it very risky and potentially unfun to take a max damage build (which would then avoid those self-sustain nodes) when one would be able to survive anyways, and —at the values suggested— make it damn hard to balance PvE and PvP both.
Additionally…
- Killer Accuracy looks like it’d be a pretty huge pain to balance.
- The limitation you want placed on Chimaera Shot should probably only be applied to instanced combat and against CCed targets, else you’d actually drop QoL elsewhere (in leveling and when opening vs. 2 enemies with MD or in repositioning ranged mobs for the tank during speedruns).
- Bombardment would have anti-synergy with Bulletstorm, Target Practice, and Chimaera Shot, unless it doesn’t actually consume your Precise Shots / Wild Quiver.
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Room for Improvement
In short, you’ve still got quite a few lackluster talents still hanging around (Target Practice, Trick Shots not being embedded into Multishot [or Multishot being worthwhile on its own], Lone Wolf not being ST only and baselined, etc.)
Additionally…
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Nitpick: Need to clarify the effect on Wild Quiver (e.g., “incur a 20% shorter global recast time”). Additionally, I’d recommend weighing that further in favor of Haste and Focus cost reduction as to (1) better differentiate it from Precise Shots and (2) improve its ability to sync up to Aimed Shot (1.67 GCDs) and Steady Shot (1.33 GCDs). Reducing the global recast time incurred by a third (making Wild Quiver shots just a 0.67 GCD [1 second pre-Haste]) would allow you to resync often and easily.
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Momentum (Steady Focus v2) shouldn’t stack. While that’s certainly a buff, it’d make it stronger while also making it rather more brain-dead. If allowed to stack, instead of simply allowing multiple simultaneous applications, you’d open with one Steady Shot, and thereafter use it only as often as needed with a minimum of 1 StS every 12 seconds to maintain the buff. There’d be no need to judge when you can insert it at minimum loss into your rotation.
- I’d therefore recommend instead that you either…
- offer only that “Up to 2 applications may apply simultaneously,” such that the second shot (and every shot thereafter) doesn’t refresh two shot’s worth of effect and perhaps even increasing the Haste bonus slightly instead, or
- make it only apply the effect after the second consecutive Steady Shot while dealing with its present issues by instead giving it partial roll-over on the buff duration and having only completed offensive shots count against Steady Shot’s consecutive uses (so that Countershot, traps, Concussive, Binding, etc. don’t break your streak).
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Your Deathblow change makes this talent increasingly build around Rapid Fire. Not sure how badly that might reduce build freedom, though, since it also slightly frees it from (old) WRG.
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Your Windrunner’s Guidance currently makes every Aimed Shot castable while moving, unless Aimed Shots which consume WRG do not, themselves, grant WSG. It also has the effect of forcing you to complete your Aimed Shots within 4 seconds’ of each other to get any beneficial effect. This is plenty of time only if you ensure that the effect is snapshotted (unlike, say, the Trick Shots provided by Volley) across the whole cast, so that a mobile Aimed Shot can’t be killed at 90+% progress when the duration ends, etc.
-
-
The Good
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Streamline
- Though I wonder if there’s ever a case where one wouldn’t want to take a 20% reduced uptime cost on Aimed Shot (an extra second of offensive time every 2 Aimed Shots), even if they didn’t necessarily need the faster casts just to get Aimed Shot off at all?
- Bursting Shot
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Bombardment
- I think? It’s a little hard to tell.
-
Sharpshooter → Killing Fields
- Since you can only get at most 4 of these per 21.6 - 24 seconds pre-Haste, the CDR shouldn’t be too extreme. It’d essentially allow for ~30-second Salvos outside of Trueshot.
-
Streamline
A pretty good run so far!
Thank you, let me explain what I mean in the more problem areas.
A lot of the changes I’ve requested puts the crucial nodes in the center, meaning you can offspec to hard damage or hard AoE, or mix the two. With the red lines, you can see that taking Deathblow/Razor Fragments into Serpentstalker’s gives full access to the dodge ability. That’s only a few talent points, so even if you went Pure AoE, you’d still have the ability to dodge.
Perhaps just have the secondary Kill Shots deal 30% damage? I wanted it to be an AoE buff, not essential, but still give some value if you don’t crit.
More so “targets not in combat”. But yes, I can see it being a problem.
It’s referring to unspent stacks. So if you cast Aimed Shot with 2 stacks of Wild Quiver, and you gain 3 stacks from Aimed Shot, you would fire two additional wind arrows (as those are otherwise overwritten). So if you never spent your Precise/Wild Quiver, you would get value from casting Aimed Shot regardless.
I could definitely see Multi-shot being slotted with Trick Shots baseline. This would open up a node, and save a talent point. For Target Practice, I think we could tack on “and each cast of Arcane/Chimera/Multi Shot further reduces the cooldown of Exhilaration by 1 second”. A neat buff to sustain that functions best in PvP, when you will often be casting Arcane the most.
I feel as if applying more ST damage effects isn’t going to be too powerful with Lone Wolf. If anything, Lone Wolf should be a flip switch.
- Gain 8% Leech and Haste when you do not have a Pet. Gain 12% Avoidance when you have a Pet.
When you don’t have a Pet, you gain a little more self sustain through a weaker leech and a little more damage through Haste. When you do have a Pet, you gain the larger 10% leech from your Pet and 12% avoidance, which is superior for Sustain in PvE. You also gain a little more ST Pet damage naturally, making up for the Haste lost in boss encounters.
Yes yes, I can agree with this. The point of Wild Quiver is to be a faster, more aggressive option to get damage out quickly and focus on movement, best for PvP, while the high damage bonus from Precise Shots is best suited for standing still and hard casting, as you’re working on your rotation and not trying to keep movement/DPS up.
Why not break the buff into 3% haste, stacking three times, with a 9 second duration? You would need to consciously maintain your buff when you can, and it’s at higher risk of falling off. But when you get the buff up, it shouldn’t be an annoyance to keep (it’s momentum, after all). It should feel more natural, popping off a steady shot every now and again to gain back some focus and haste. Feels a bit clunky as is trying to put two together at once (especially when you throw Counter Shot into the mix).
The majority of all of my death blows comes from Rapid Fire. Without running a ton of addons, you don’t even get a notice - just a glimmering Deathblow icon. Removing the RNG and putting it all on one ability just helps for clarity sake, and it feels like a finisher arrow to Rapid Fire (and it feels more like a combo, which feels good). You could add some RNG to randomly proc it off of Aimed Shot, though.
You are still limited by how many charges of Aimed Shot you have, so really, I think it’s fine. And yes, Aimed Shot won’t cancel if the buff ends, even if you’re moving.
The intention behind all of these changes is to make Aimed Shot accessible in when need-be. I think another change would be
- Lock and Load: Your autoshots have a 8% chance to gain Lock and Load. Lock and Load grants you a charge of Aimed Shot, and makes your next Aimed Shot instant cast and cost no Focus. (The original effect persists)
And you have a split talent choice, Honed Shots.
- Every third cast of Arcane/Chimera/Multi Shot triggers Honed Shots. Your next Aimed Shot becomes instant cast, and costs only 25 focus.
So your “movement combo” would look something like:
- Enter battle with Aimed Shot for burst. Bonus 3x Windarrows every time, for an extra bit of burst. Gain WG for 4 seconds of +40% move speed.
- 3x Arcane Shots through Wild Quiver. Should take a couple seconds to exhaust these.
- Honed Shots procs. Might want/need to pop a steady or two, to start gaining Momentum Stacks and recover some focus, and allow your second Aimed Shot to recharge.
- Pop your Honed Shots, gain 3x Wild Quiver shots and WG again. By now you should be almost ready with the third Aimed Shot.
- Either dump your 3x Wild Quiver for more damage, or start casting Aimed Shot. If you cast your Aimed Shot with 3x Wild Quiver arrows, you’re going to shoot 6 Wind Arrows instead of three, because you’re going over your limit of 3x Wild Quiver arrows.
- Regain WG, but no more Aimed Shots to use it. Instead pop 3x more Arcane Shots for raw damage/Honed Shots, and stack in more Steadies to maintain Focus.
Lock and Load is clearly designed as a DPS increase to work in line when hard casting Aimed Shot. Honed Shots is focused around building up to a fast Aimed Shot that you can use on the run, and grants access to WG.
Overall, the “Speedy MM Hunter” should have to give up a bit of damage for movement, and be a little more open with their rotation. As it stands now, you have to give up a TON of Aimed Shots, which is just too much, and a lot of the build is gated by RNG (Deathblow, as an example) to move as an MM Hunter. I think giving access to 3x playstyles is definitely a good way to make MM more interesting.
For convenience, the actual image Bastrii made:
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Thanks. If I update it/finish it out, would you post the updated version for me?
Also, going to address the other changes mentioned by Tanais.
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Don’t worry they just took most of them away.