You don’t have to wait 5 seconds for a tank to establish threat in retail. I’ve never seen a raid tank have issues with it in retail or in a dungeon. Did up to Heroic Devourer in Nathria before I saw no point in playing Retail, thanks.
They have to be eating glue for at least half a minute before you’ll take threat.
I usually place my totems of choice & then start dps when I see threat established. I do see some dps in pug groups open up though while tank is still running to target or haven’t properly established threat yet. I love it when the tanks let the dps tank the mob they pulled like that.
Mana is only a problem In black morass imo. Not enough damage output to maintain mana. Mark skull and x avengers shield judge righteousness on skull swap to seal of wisdom judge another target and apply seal of wisdom to sustain yourself on AoE packs.
You won’t have to drink a lot if you play like this. If you have half decent SP 250+ you’ll hold threat on everything with conc + holy shield. Paly tanking is literally the dream. It feels like cheating IMO.
I was at that point once.
Frustrated.
Then, I took all my F’s and threw them out the window.
Pull before me? Well, if you wanted it so bad, why didn’t you say so! You can keep it!
Not waiting after I asked you to? Well, you can have that one, too!
Still not listening? Hell, looks like 10 other groups would love to have me, have fun spamming LFG.
Long story short, if they aren’t going to be considerate, do not waste your precious energy and time trying to please them. If communication fails, they are not worth it. Move on and find people who work together as a team.
nah, the boosters arent pulling aggro in their blues/greens, its the chad t3 chars that have no idea how to run 5 mans
If they aren’t waiting they are probably from retail. Sorry this has been happening to u. I know if I get aggro I FD or run to the tank.
I’ve done a couple dungeons with boosted tanks thats when I usually just use auto shot. The healer usually gets aggro and I use trap. Mages going all out that are in nax gear deserve to die.
I’m not tanking, but I have noticed a staggering amount of hunters pulling aggro and backpedaling away from the tank until they can taunt.
Tanking in pugs can require a babysitter mindset.
Find a decent guild. Problem solved.
Google me Chuck!
the wrath comment just exposes you as a bad player, a bear is better at aoe threat than a warrior, and you just need to make sure there’s no boosters and zoomers in your party, you are the tank, be better at choosing your party, you have all the options in the world, its literally 99% your fault you’re having a bad time here.
its both, the boosters attack the wrong targets at the wrong time and pull threat off the tanks, then allow the same mob to target the healer next because they’re not competent enough to even keep up the aggro.
This usually annoys the heck out of me as a healer because the next pull is just far enough ahead to be out of range, or the tank goes out of los. And takes a lot of damage before I get there to mash healing wave to get the health back - and then they repeat. I hate healing this way.
From the healer perspective.
When one pack dies.
Move forward to the next pack.
Then start drinking.
That way you are in-range of tank while drinking instead of finishing a drink and having to run forward to get in range before casting.
Simple things like this make a HUGE difference.
Its when the tank touches the mobs and then the dps pull is the problem, they dont wait until any threat is established, myself if I get a good 3 seconds after my consecration is down i’ll have threat no problem, between ret aura, holy shield and cons thats lots of threat. But if I dont get it right off the bat its next to impossible to get back especially if the dps start nuking immediately, I have 1 Taunt thats a 15 second CD for 1 ally that peels 3 mobs off for 3 seconds, if 2 dps are pulling I can maybe get threat off of one person; bubs are reserved for emergency healer threat.
Unfortunately the player base in classic has always been all about meters. Everyone wants to be at the top, and a lot of people expect high performance (and for dps classes it’s exclusively how much damage you can do, threat and cc be damned). So DPS go into dungeons with this added pressure to prove themselves, even at the cost of the group itself.
comparatively yes, on my retail pally i walk in and consecration, boom 100% threat right off the hop for the entire fight, TBC it does not work like that at all, I need minimum 3 seconds after aoe to get minimum threat, which by that time the casters have started nuking and my threat is gone
Lol, retail tanking is extremely easy, every class has a wealth of aoe threat abilities, extreme self sustain, and the way threat works for tanks they are basically tar for mobs.
Basically this.
As a paladin in retail and a paladin now in classic, I’ve healed and tanked countless dungeons in vanilla, tbc, and WotLK.
I’ve had 1 instance. Read it, ONE, in hundreds upon hundreds of runs that was not salvageable due to the dk being geared badlyt when I healed. I’ve had MAYBE 3 runs where the healer was just too poorly geared and making poor choices of heals to keep me up when I tanked.
I’ve had the overwhelming majority of all those runs have AT LEAST one or two brainless dps. The kind of dps that believes they are good because they top damage meters despite outgearing everyone in the group and causing constant issues for everyone, effectively making the group kill slower than it could.
Yes, the problem is the dps’ers. Simply put it, the role tends to attract the ADD stricken morons who just don’t have functional brains. AKA: They’re mostly idiots.
They want to see the big numbers on their dps meter just so they can feel good about their empty lives. They just have that mentality of, “If I dps 2 seconds later than that other dps, I might have lower dps than them by the end of the run! I’ll JUST AOE THE MOMENT THE TANK RUNS IN!!111"1SHIFT+ONE!”
I have way, WAY more respect for a dps who’s middle of the pack but never dies, doesn’t charge in like an idiot, aoe’s immediately, or just doesn’t use all the tools at their disposition to make the group kills faster. And yes, to most mouth breathers out there, actually waiting 3 seconds before you smash your head on your keyboard can actually reduce how long it takes to kill the mobs. I know this is difficult to comprehend to most huntards, mages, and warlocks out there, but trust me on this; I know better than you.
While there are a few “huntards” out there that’s I’d love to beat with a stick until they learn how to properly control their pets, I’m happy to say that I’m not one of them.
I’ve been running BM Hunters since 2 weeks into the original Vanilla WoW. Back then Hunters and Tanks worked in lockstep to maintain aggro control with the Tank taking point and the Hunter handling patrols, adds, and strays.
Although in my noob days I’m sure I failed in ways that were both spectacular and painful for the group, it’s been a very, very long time since that has happened.
Pack mechanics nowadays are almost completely ignored or are done with what amounts to negative knowledge about how to do them.
BM Hunters, for instance are cleave fighters. That is, their rotation is built around keeping up Frenzy and Beast Cleave in order to do well. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen some idiot rogue CC a mob in the middle of the scrum with no warning and then three seconds later scream at me, “Why did you break CC?”.
I’ve seen DK’s (both Tanks and DPS) run so far ahead of the group that their nameplates dropped of my screen and then whine and cry about how crappy the rest of the group was.
I’ve actually had a DK tank whine about Misdirecting to him telling me I should leave him to manage aggro (when I was Misdirecting his CURRENT target to him because he’d allowed it to turn on the healer).
I don’t think it’s a class issue so much as a Millennial/Post-Millennial player issue, and while the lack of thoughtful play isn’t universal or exclusive to that group of players, it is endemic.
With the GO GO GO mentality that M+ introduced into the game and many members of those generational groups’ apparent inability to shift from “this is a timed instance speed run” to “anything else”, instances have become toxic at virtually every level.
When TBC TimeWalking was up a few weeks back it was kinda funny watching a group of players who hadn’t experienced TBC the first time trying to apply that GO GO GO nonsense to an instance that wasn’t built for it and effectively had gotchas in place to prevent running past every mob in the place to get to the boss RIGHT DARNED NOW.
I hung back and WATCHED as packs of mobs that had been bypassed lurched into full speed mode and ran up on the back of the group (minus me, I was behind THEM hoping to at least Misdirect them into the Tank - but unfortunately HE was miles ahead of the rest of the group so he was out of range).
I’ve almost completely stopped doing PVE in groups because it’s just hopeless.
If there’s a quest I have to do or a drop I need that requires an instance or raid run, I’ll go, but otherwise, just no.
I feel your pain, brother. I wish there were an answer for it, but there really isn’t. Blizzard has catered to the GO GO GO generation so long and so exclusively that thoughful play has almost become impossible.