Aw come on, Zerde. 
I might have been able to win people over to the idea of Lordaeron humans getting Southshore (rebuilt as something larger with walls and a port), Hillsbrad Fields, and Azureload Mine back. As well as Pyrewood back to the Gilneans, Dalaran (fully Alliance) back in Hillsbrad, and Ambermill back to Gilneans/Dalaran.
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Then they should fight the Alliance for it, however doesnât mean the Lordearon refugees(makes up the majority of stormwind) and Turaylon should just give up their home to the forsaken either.
They can fight for it. They should also win just like the Night Elves did.
Sure, Maybe, though to have any conflict that does mean getting rid of Anduin so there can be an actual fight cause heâd probably end up siding with the Horde if anyone attempted to hurt those poor forsaken.
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It equally rightfully belong to living humans as well who are now forced to be refugees in Stormwind.
Tempting to be honest. How about this Magâhar gets back its land in AU Draenor and we get back our old Zones. If the Forsaken want something they can have all of Alterac, bonus for Securing the safety of the Frostwolves.
We all know this is a lie. Consider that the greatest human whatever will always trump a different raceâs exact equivalent.
The underdog angle might work if humanity would actually falter once in a while.
Here Iâll agree when it comes to shorter lived races vs longer lived races. Stagnation hit the elves pretty hard considering they nearly lost all their conflicts without foreign intervention. Tyrande might be thousands of years old, but the nature of warfare has changed from what she is used to.
I donât consider Azeroth a harsh world because humans are so superior compared to the dangers they face. Theyâve already tamed the land and any tribal race such as the Trolls or Kobolds are kept in low populations because Stormwind sends in young adults to cull them regularly. Even then the more supernatural threats youâve mentioned can just be magicked away, which I consider lazy writing.
Iâm waiting for a Kulâtiran to dethrone Thrall and become the next world shaman.
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Depends on what you mean by âheroicâ.
There will always be faction conflict. The Forsaken are going to have to fight to keep what belongs to them.
A story where the Forsaken keep and do nothing in Lordaeron is boring. Fighting to defend whatâs yours raises the stakes and give the Forsaken something to lose. Theyâve lost the Undercity but they still have the rest of it to fight for.
The saddest part is they donât even need to dethrone him. The writers turned him into a powerless sadsack that had to be guilted and threatened into even caring about the faction he founded. They went so far out of their way to retroactively make so many of his actions/decisions turn out to to asinine mistakes that he flat out says he feels like he did everything wrong. =/
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The issue is that youâre rather blithely overlooking the cost associated with âtaming the landâ, which is far from tamed anyway. Why thereâs barely two kingdoms left, starvation in some areas, and the descriptions given in Westfall, Redridge, and Duskwood are of a kingdom that can barely provide for it (regarding food and defense). Situations that have only deteriorated over time, like the takeover of The Veiled Hand.
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I mean putting Garrosh on the Throne was always a mistake and can be a considered a source of all our problems until now. Hell, no Warchief Garrosh=no bombing of Theramore=the Alliance could have easily helped Teldrassil.
But they donât have to fight for what belongs to them. That was the entire point of the Gathering.
Ancilorn: âGarrosh has so much to prove. Itâs no secret lots of people are concerned that Garrosh has so far displayed a wide variety of negative and faulted traits, and itâs to be expected that folks will be worried should an Orc with a temper as hot as the one Garrosh has shown so far take lead of the Horde. With that said, whatâs to say that in time, or given certain events that his temperament wonât be altered?â
Zarhym: âIâm confident that, in due time, you may better understand the many tribulations facing both Garrosh and Varian. You might not agree with all of their actions, but their ideals might not end up seeming to you so unforgivably malicious, or even misguided.â
Kisirani: âGarrosh is a character with a lot to prove. I realize thereâs a great deal of consternation out there concerning the tales of whatâs to come, but I want to reassure you that we understand that concern. We know where youâre coming from. Why are we still going this route? With all respect, you havenât seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. Youâve seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend.â
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That wasnât my question. I asked why Northrend would be an acceptable trade for Lordaeron when the Forsakenâs identity is largely tied up in their struggle to hold their home against a world who hates them?
If the Alliance wants to try and take Lordaeron thatâs fine, as long as they lose and the Forsaken win just like the Night Elves did.
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Northrend mostly because they already have bases there, plus the relative inhospitability of the means none in the Alliance particular care for it. Lastly, like it or not there history is also fairly closely tied to the Scourge. Hell, if they want they can have Naxxramas as a new home city for all I care.
Teldrassil is gone and as far as we know unsalvageable. And the same should go for Lordaeron/Tirisfal.
Part of the issue I have always seen is that were told humans are weak, frail, rely on technology, armor, and numbers in an every day setting against other forces. Its never really shown even in the most simplistic of ways. Part, Iâd argue, has to do with game mechanics. One of the most obvious examples is Southern Barrens between Hunterâs Hill and Honors Stand. Its orcs and tauren squaring off, largely 1v1 or even 2v1, against humans. Weâre told orcs, and tauren especially, are massive, strong, and dangerous compared to humans, yet we see generic footman holding his own against generic tauren brave or orc warrior. Its done for questing, âGo kill 10 Footmanâ/âGo kill 10 Hunter Hill defendersâ with NPCs of equal health, damage, and abilities where if we wanted an immersive world, it would asymmetrical balance in those quests.
Its human faith and tenacity that gets them through combat and strife, we see that in quest text, in books and similar media, we see it in game to an extent within their own areas, but its not overtly shown in a more grand narrative.
They used the druid magic to make it in the first place, they can use it again to fix it if they really wanted to. Lordearon and Tirisfal are completely salvageable as they are and its really only UC/Capital City proper thats the huge bio-hazard zone.
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I think thatâs a big problem in a lot of areas - the underlying lore might be fine, but the story keeps skipping in-game portrayals and falling back on that out-of-game lore. And without reinforcement - really, with all player experiences portraying a completely different reality - then that out-of-game lore starts to feel hollow.
That is one thing that I hope could change - with the advent of the âfill up the % barâ completion, could they change the NPC placement/stats so that NPC numbers are more reflective of lore while still keeping constant the player effort needed to complete the quest?
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Its certainly difficult to do from a game play stand point, at least if you want to retroactively fix the issues. Going forward its a complete possibility, its just figuring out the formula you want to use.
Also for units do you say⌠create a base 100/100/100 and that equals a human as your standard for health, damage, armor/abilities?
Do you then start getting creative? Does your typical gnome warrior unit actually come in the form of a 3 man squad with little chain swords? 33/50/150 where between the 3 of them their health equals 1 full unit, they each attack with 50% the normal damage, but use special abilities more often? IDK, thats for devs to decided but that would be my formula. A tauren being say⌠300/125/25? Certainly some areas would be more difficult that others but I think thats where balancing it correctly, or better yet knowing your class and abilities, comes into play which would make for a more unique playing experience
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What makes Warhammer Humans interesting is more often than not they are their on worst enemy, succumbing to Chaos or embracing Necromancy in bids for power that rob them of their humanity and make them the destroyers and despoilers of all they previously held dear.
Sure the occasional Orc, Skaven, or Dark Elf onslaught may occur, but generally speaking the biggest threats humanity ever faced came from humanity to begin with.
There is a hint of that in Arthas and the Cult Of the Damned, and thatâs partially why Wrath was such a popular expansion story-wise. There is an air of lost glory and betrayed that lends a certain grim determination to the proceedings.
Aside from the Lich Kong however, most of the Allianceâs threats have been purely external, with most internal human driven problems invariably having a demon or old god manipulating unwilling puppets from behind the scenes. Itâs rare for an Alliance human to fully embrace the darkness and rarer still for them to last more than a few seconds after revealing that they have.
As such, Alliance Humans just come off as perpetual victims, constantly assailed by outside forces they are either unwilling or unable to do anything about beyond briefly defending themselves long enough for the next threat to rear itâs ugly head.
There is none of the sense of desperation or defeated hope either, because WoW is far too cartoony and bright and poppy to allow for anything like gravitas to accumulate. Instead WoW humanity just looks self-righteous in between being bucket-on-head stupid.
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