Huge nerf to solo/outdoor gear progression in DF Season 1

Community General Discussion
1309

Technically, it was raid or die, or possibly PvP or die, as far as gear, the thing that made it popular was there were open world reps that provided other things that people could work on instead of gear.

Netherwing rep, the dragon races in Shadowmoon, Orgri’la, etc.

The thing is, since Wrath, we had more devs, or whatever, that seemed to think raids and such were not being done due to gear, so they started inflating access to gear. The thing is, vanilla, BC, Wrath, and even later, hac activities that people could do for other rewards aside from gear, it was these activities that drove the popularity.

Sadly, the bottle of the genie has been opened as far as world content providing power progression, and it is a PITA to stuff the genie back into the bottle. Maybe the goal of DF is it get the game closer to the roots of what was established in vanilla, BC, and wrath while not completely retuning to those days.

Because there is none outside what you can get via rep up to a certain point. Vanilla, TBC and Wrath were the days where gear was available more in instanced content, but the devs were able to make the open world FUN. Then wow started to move into the idea that only instanced content should be “fun” and slowly (as there were still things like IoT/IoG and timeless) made the open world boring, easy and all in all, just something the devs thought should be a stepping stone.

Maybe the issue is now we have the arguments of “if you are not going to make the content fun, make it rewarding” or “if you are not going to make it rewarding, make it fun” for those of us that have played since vanilla.

1310

Outdoor content being “fun” is really vague though.

Was doing Ogrilla dailies super “fun” in TBC?

Was doing…whatever people were doing in the vanilla world “fun”? There were no dailies or really any world content so it was mainly mat farming then. Was that fun? I mean I farmed a lot of elemental water, fire, and earth for pots in classic and I don’t know if “fun” was ever the word I would use for it. If I wasnt raiding I don’t even know what I would have done at 60. There just isn’t anything.

3 Likes
1311

Back then… endless open world pvp. All day, every day.
I spent hundreds of hours killing people on the isle of quel’danas alone.

1312

it might be debatable, but a lto might have found it fun because it was different, I mean Orgri’la was the area where you could play a game of Simon to summon tougher mobs, had to do bombing runs, etc. If nothing else, it was a break from the gear grind that were dungeons and raids, so people cold avoid burn out.

Vanilla was certainly lacking, but they did try to breath life into the open world with like the T2 dungeon sets (earned by questing and possibly gathering some mats), the War of the Shifting Sands in Sillithus, the taking of the towers in EPL

The thing is those that need to get gear to have fun likely should GTFO, while those that view gear as a tool should be able to get better tools however they are able to or can manage.

1313

Incentives drive human behavior.

Gear is the primary incentive in World of Warcraft.

4 Likes
1314

True

It is now, but it was not always. That is the issue, some of us can remember when the incentive was fun, or things we still have to this day (Tmog, pets, toys, mounts, etc).

Incentives may drive human behavior, but what good is an incentive that does not last?

The view some have might be a paraphrase of this line from Dinotopia: eat to live, don’t live to eat. For ones like me, the ones that see gear as the goal, or the only incentive, are the ones that are living to eat while those that see gear as a tool are eating to live.

1315

I’ve played wow since it started. I did the HWL grind, twice. I remember camping the zone in to bg’s, and scarlet monestary.

I’m sure you see value in what you do. If that works for you great. But making the assumption that what matters to you, is any more relevant than what matters to someone else … pretty hot take.

1316

Then let me put it another way, the ones that see gear as the goal are akin to the ones that made themselves out to be great or powerful, yet today a lot of people are like “who?”. Where as the ones that see gear as a tool might just be the ones everyone knows about because they just did what they thought was right and what they could could get done with what they had, they did not seek fame nor fortune but it came to them anyway.

1317

The real problem is the absurd jumps in ilvl / stat scaling multiplied by the silly number of ‘difficulties’ that result in such large power gaps.

Remove some of the ‘difficulty’ tiers (e.g. combine LFR / normal; heroic / mythic 0) and compress ilvl / stat scaling between difficulties such that the top and bottom are not so far apart.

But doing that would lessen player FOMO, as well as hurt Blizzard’s token-selling business, so I don’t expect to see this ever happen.

2 Likes
1318

You should probably put the pipe down friend.

1 Like
1319

I am in favor of a system where a player’s power is not locked behind content difficulty. Instead, the rate at which a player increases in power should be proportional to the difficulty of the content that they do. The difficulty of content would also determine the quality of cosmetic rewards.

1 Like
1320

Are you insinuating I am high? I don’t do that stuff. Maybe people should not be so short sighted.

If you want to know why I say gear is temporary, just look at the attitudes when a patch or expansion is coming up:

“why bother gearing, it will all be replaced by questing greens soon”
“why bother getting the gear now, soon world content will provide similar, if not better gear”.

As I said, gear is temporary, the other rewards: mogs, pets, titles, toys, mounts, etc. last as long as WoW will last.

Gear is a tool, nothing more, nothing less, to make it the incentive is akin to making a paycheck the incentive when it would be better to look at what you could use that paycheck for, I.E. a vacation where memories can be made, a once in a lifetime experience, maybe a fancy dinner for the one you love, etc.

There is nothing wrong with wanting gear, but the question has to be why do they want it.

1321

Gear is more useful than that little number you have attached to your name tied to a game you don’t own.

Wow could stadia anytime, and then you’d have what exactly?

1322

Nothing but the memories I made while playing, nothing but recalling the fun I had earning those things.

What will those who focus on gear have in the same situation?

1323

Your argument hinged on permanence. There is none.

1324

Memories last as long as the person with them lasts, or goes senile as the case may be :stuck_out_tongue:

Nothing is 100% permanent, mountains erode, cities rise and fall, humans are born and die, even the world will end one day.

So, again, what do those who focus on gear have if WoW pulled a stadia?

1325

Your question is silly. Not going to engage it.

I don’t happen to be motivated by checklists.

1326

You are not going to engage it because it exposes any argument that gear is the goal as idiotice. I’ll tell you want those who focus on gear in WoW will have if WoW pulls a stadia: NOTHING, no memories of friends online, no moments of feeling proud they over came a challenge, nothing but a sense of wasted time they could have used better.

Neither am I, but it is what those “checklists” lead to that motivate me.

By refusing to engage my question, you more or less killed any argument that gear as a goal is a valid argument.

1327

LOL, sure bud.

Prove it.

Of course you can’t. It’s just your silly opinion. Worth less than spit on the sidewalk.

1 Like
1328

This is a great view to have.

It’s just that type of game isn’t WoW.

WoW is a gear progression game with a loose “harder content = better reward” design paradigm.

It’s like asking for more gear power progression on the Guild Wars forum. It’s not what the game is.