Huge nerf to solo/outdoor gear progression in DF Season 1

[Brewa-hyjal]

Nor should WoW be.

[Whitherlinn-myzrael]

But it is, or you wouldn’t be here crying that someone might get something that didn’t play the way you did.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Whitherlinn-myzrael

I play D&D each week and its never about gear

Exactly Brewa’s point. No DM with any sense will dump a +5 Holy Avenger in a random pile of Kobold junk.

[Gaffgarion-garrosh]

So I cannot earn a “(Insert name here) the Boar Slayer” by killing thousands of Boars in Elwynn Forest when we are of the same level? Well dang, tis a bummer that is.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Whitherlinn-myzrael

But it is, or you wouldn’t be here crying that someone might get something that didn’t play the way you did.

I’m not crying about anything. I’m explaining to you why you don’t get phenomenal cosmic power for doing world quests. And why that’s never going to change, because to do so would be horrible game design.

Gear is a tool. To overcome challenges. Harder challenges gives better tools, with which to overcome even harder challenges.

As long as people can get the tools they need to do the content they’re doing, there are no issues.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Gaffgarion-garrosh

So I cannot earn a “(Insert name here) the Boar Slayer” by killing thousands of Boars in Elwynn Forest

I mean sure, but that’s not what Whitherlinn wants. He wants 311 Gavel from killing boars for the same number of hours it takes to kill Mythic Jailer.

[Gaffgarion-garrosh]

Oh I know, I am just having some fun. Don’t really care for gear anymore myself. Least not anything higher than Heroic Dungeons and perhaps LFR.

[Actrise-velen (Actrise)]

They really are so closed minded that they believe any change would compromise the way they feel a sense of accomplishment.

elitist jerks meme

[Whitherlinn-myzrael]

@Brewa-hyjal

I’m explaining to you why you don’t get phenomenal cosmic power for doing world quests.

But we have, corruption gear, Azerite gear with set gear with Azerite dust, justice points. Solo visions.,

Again that is your opinion, and I value it. But it just yours and others have different. I value there’s too.

[Brewa-hyjal]

Are you talking about titanforging? Titanforging was a bad idea and caused big problems for the game, which is why it was removed.

And it’s not coming back.

The biggest problem with titanforging was that it caused some weirdo sugar high in people, who now cannot play the game without it. They were fine with world content not giving amazing gear for years, but after 2 expansions with titanforging, the game is pointless to them without it.

And that’s a shame.

[Whitherlinn-myzrael]

No, ten characters.

[Brewa-hyjal]

Azerite gear from world content was pretty meh without it. Meh gear will be available in DF. Both were perfectly adequate for doing world content. People will be fine doing world content with world content gear in Dragonflight. There is no issue.

[Whitherlinn-myzrael]

No one has ever provided a a good argument and/or proof how this could hurt the game or affect them as a player in anyway. Just but but but strawman…

Clearly there is one MMORPG that has been gaining subscriptions. Its not wow, and it shows.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Whitherlinn-myzrael

No one has ever provided a a good argument and/or proof how this could hurt the game

Yes people have. I just explained it to you again.

You just don’t want to hear it, like a 2-year-old being told that a stick of butter and a bowl of sugar isn’t in fact a good breakfast.

[Whitherlinn-myzrael]

@Brewa-hyjal

Yes people have. I just explained it to you again.

key the phrase was

@Whitherlinn-myzrael

good argument

Not going to argue with you anymore, your ideas of more of the same will be the death of a great franchisee. I am sure you will be Mad as heck when MS put wow in gamebox.

[Brewa-hyjal]

It’s been a good argument for 50 years, and still is, which is why the game is being designed this way.

If you want a game where you’re showered with trophies for doing trivial content, go play that game instead. I’m not sure what that game is, but there’s probably something somewhere.

Anyway, WoW clearly isn’t the game for you, so my advice is to move on and leave us in peace.

[Chänx-tichondrius]

@Wraathh-stormrage

There is nothing elitist about wanting there to be appropriate rewards for the content that you do.

You’re not getting it. This isn’t about people wanting gear progression for no effort; rather, it’s about the inclusion of alternative gear progression systems that aren’t raiding, M+, or rated PVP. Initially, it looked like DF was going to have that - which is why a lot of people are PO’d about the recent changes. As is typical of Blizzard, they backtracked on a good idea.

@Wraathh-stormrage

There will always be a cap on gear you get from solo/world content.

There doesn’t have to be - that’s the part that you don’t seem to get. In fact, I’d argue that the system was looking pretty good, right up until just recently, when they decided to cap open world gear progressions systems at LFR iLvl. They literally had the ball in their hands… and then they just dropped it and lost the game.

@Wraathh-stormrage

If you raise that level, you’ll run into the cap anyway, just a week later and so on.

False. This is a variable that can easily be manipulated by various gating methods - which Blizzard has a lot of expertise in, wouldn’t you say?

@Wraathh-stormrage

More difficult content rewards better equipment.

Difficulty is quite subjective and also highly relative. For instance, some people wouldn’t have the patience to grind out currencies via fairly repetitive open world content for months on end - but they could do a M+ 20, down a Mythic boss, or achieve high PVP rating, and vice versa. The thing is… we should be opening doors, not closing them; we should be striving for more methods of progressing, not less. This is an MMO, after all.

@Wraathh-stormrage

If this is called being an elitist, what is the word for someone who wants what others get without putting in the effort?

This is a strawman, seeing as people aren’t asking for loot with no effort. They’re asking for other ways to get (comparable) loot besides raiding, M+, or rated PVP. The argument that grinding isn’t difficult enough to warrant (comparable) rewards is a bald-faced lie: countless people don’t have the patience for it. I mean, just listen to the way people whine about reputations.

@Nethegot-wyrmrest-accord

I think ilvl is a bit of a red herring; if they gave gear that was only LFR ilvl, but had fun outdoor bonuses like ZM gear, that could be fine.

I’m going to disagree with this. In many respects, Kennie is right: people do want higher (comparable) iLvl gear. I mean, everybody wants big shiny loot. Being dishonest about that fact isn’t helping anyone. The thing is, what do people do when they aren’t keen on raiding, M+, or rated PVP? What are their options? Where do they go? What do they turn to? How has it been 18 years and they haven’t addressed this?

@Nethegot-wyrmrest-accord

I also think some people actually do want harder world content, and I think there should be a place for that as well, without sacrificing the easier content.

True. I think that a fair amount of people would like to see a lot more world bosses and rares; also, they’d like them to be quite a bit more difficult. I mean, up the pressure a little. Stop making this stuff so wimpy. World bosses and rares should feel like something you needed to group up for, should involve annoying mechanics, and should drop (relatively) decent upgrades that aren’t irrelevant a week later.

Where open world gear progression systems are concerned, all they need to do is make it a sufficient grind - again, something Blizzard is very good at. That’s it. It’s not complicated.

@Snozy-thrall

No they didnt. Spending one hour grinding trivial brain dead content is not harder work than timing a +15 in 45 minutes

Who TF is getting gear from one hour of grinding open world content, my boy?

@Whitherlinn-myzrael

I must ask, what difference would it make to someone that pushes raids/keys.

That’s a good question.

@Varelai-area-52

The most “reasonable” argument I’ve seen given is that raiders would feel inclined to take the path of least resistance, but this is easily refuted by making it so that a mythic raiding gear piece is not literally handed out after one hour of world content farming and that loot drops are increased in mythic raids to still incentivize raiders to raid.

Right. This goes right back to what I’ve been saying the whole time: it’s not a matter of “Loot for no effort”; rather, it’s about alternative gear progression systems being a part of the game. Some people don’t like raiding, M+, and rated PVP… so why isn’t there something else for them? Why are they being ignored, or - in many cases - just told to (effectively) “Raid or die?” This is an entirely inappropriate attitude to take towards paying customers.

They already have two entirely viable methods they could flesh out going into DF:

1. An open world gear progression system (or two [one PVE, one WPVP])
2. A profession-based gear progression system

What’s funny is that they almost had it… and then they messed it all up recently.

@Actrise-velen

@Wraathh-stormrage

Or it could go the other way.

haha more players
more options
more profit
sounds real bad

I know, right?

@Varelai-area-52

I think solo/world content players just want a purpose to play instead of capping out one month into an expansion/patch.

This, 100%. 100%. This is exactly the sorts of things I heard from talking with casual/solo players over the years. Capping them at LFR iLvl and stretching out the grind for that gear isn’t fooling anyone, either.

@Brewa-hyjal

Which is what Korthia was, and they all complained that it took too long.

Who is “They?” Most of the casual/solo players I spoke to about ZM didn’t mind it; granted, they found ZM to be quite boring and uninspired as a zone, and the gearing really wasn’t all that great. It had a lot of potential… but as is typical, that potential was never fully realized.

Edit: Sorry. I was talking about ZM, not Korthia. I should have addressed Korthia. I can get back to that later.

@Jhannae-bronzebeard

Quick question. Why would you need gear if what you do would only be Solo or outdoor stuff?

This is a typical counter argument; however, it doesn’t really hold water when examined carefully. Unfortunately, I don’t have time to address it just now (IRL duties are calling), but you can bet that I will when I get a chance.

[anon21042566]

okay so I can hop on FF and buy gear at lvl 50 ,60,70,80,90 which last till the next level. IE if I am 60 the gear will last to level 70. and I can get crafted gear which is only 10 points below the raid level of FF which I don’t need to do the raid. And in Warcraft you all worry about gear level. this game has turned into a joke and my partner who was a huge warcraft player has even noticed how much easier it to progress in gear with out the hassle.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Chänx-tichondrius

@Brewa-hyjal

Which is what Korthia was, and they all complained that it took too long.

Who is “They?”

The loud-mouths who drowned the forum in complaints. The ones who said rank 6 with archivists would take “months” or “years” even though it only took 28 days.

Your beef is with them.

[Actrise-velen (Actrise)]

people like you and whither truly are trying to make wow a better game

thats more time than i would spend talking to a wall.

i woild have been silenced by calling out the …i cant say it