Huge nerf to solo/outdoor gear progression in DF Season 1

[Blitzkareeg-area-52 (Blitzkareeg)]

Was the actual RL in the top guild Freaks on Malfurion, up until half way through BC when the guild leader/founder died. The guild was disbanded by me, and transferred to an alt, and put on mothballs. We were very well known in vanilla.

I hopped around to different guilds, following friends. Made RL in 3 other guilds over the span of years. I quit organized guilds and raiding a couple expansions ago, and do not regret it. pugged quite a few raids in WoD, and Legion, also did M+ in Legion. Then everyone basically quit that i ran them with in BfA, and i never went back to doing them.

To old and messed up health wise to deal with instanced content anymore, and refuse to be be forced into it again just to feel like i am a valued customer to a company i have spent thousands on over the years. I want a more relaxed way of playing, and thats solo/open world play, where my time investment is rewarded accordingly. Being a gimp, i play for hours, because theres nothing better to do anymore.

I think it is more than fair to expect early tier “normal” raid ilvl gear for doing whatever it is blizz wants me to do in open world for however long it takes. Again, their decision to nerf the invasion gear is going to cost them a good and loyal player, and it actually saddens me to go. But i am sick of being treated as a third class player because i finally decided that grouped content is no longer for me anymore, because of reasons beyond my control.

So you can keep your leetist game, and i truly hope you have fun in DF.

@Sambouki-malganis

Also-what exactly did you raid lead? All your raid achievements show you having never cleared a raid when it was current.

This is also not my main, or even one of my mains. You do know that achievs were not a thing in early WoW right? You should also look a bit closer. I will not be posting on my main just to make you feel better, because i really do not care what you believe.

I also have youtube videos up under one of my mains, owning in PvP and raids. But you wont see them, because again i have nothing to prove to YOU.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

Was the actual RL in the top guild Freaks on Malfurion, up until half way through BC when the guild leader/founder died.

Great, you led raids that are brain dead compared to modern wow and its mechanics. Your experience 15 years ago doesn’t mean anything anymore.

[Critswalkin-cenarius (Critswalkin)]

@Eleusia-myzrael

Competitive players will not have to do open world content for conduit upgrades, AP, Titanforged gear, or any power sources anymore in DF. So why are elitist players putting the burden on themselves of feeling like they have to stop open world players from having an adequate progression experience? Elitists could just put the burden down and say, “This doesn’t affect me. Just do whatever is best for the relevant players.” But no, elitists have given themselves the duty of preventing what they see as a an infringement upon their worth and superiority.

Or so called “elitists” are saying what they’ve said about 100x in this tread. Solo players do have an adequate progression experience that is based on the difficulty of the content. If the ilvl of gear given in WQs does not affect raiders then the ilvl of gear given in raids does not affect WQ solo players. Nobody is unable to complete a WQ. They are designed for a 100% completion rate. Billy Bob the raider having better gear than you does not affect your ability to complete the WQ.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Critswalkin-cenarius

Billy Bob the raider having better gear than you does not affect your ability to complete the WQ.

And world questers having Normal raid iLvl gear months into a season doesn’t affect your ability to complete raids or keys, either.

….Unless WoW subs get so low that it affects the devs’ capabilities of putting out new content. It has happened to other MMOs before, and WoW subs do keep dropping to new lows after the hype for each expac launch.

We might see new expacs in the future but with every season like SL Season 4. Box sales for new expacs draw in money, but new raids being released can barely stop the sub hemorrhage as raid participation is getting lower and lower.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Eleusia-myzrael

And world questers having Normal raid iLvl gear months into a season doesn’t affect your ability to complete raids or keys, either.

Counterpoint: how about you get a new system that goes to Vault heroic levels, but only 8 months after vault comes out.

@Eleusia-myzrael

as raid participation is getting lower and lower.

Have you considered the possibility that this effect (if it exists) is related to the world gear getting buffed in SL?

[Gargella-azuresong]

@Robokappa-sargeras

we asked for it to be content-bare.

no systems, no grinds, no this, no that, flying from Day 1… it’s the perfect raidlog expansion.

About the only consistent feedback was no throw away systems that you had to grind for a year and lose. Grinding for rep, gear, etc isn’t the same.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

Counterpoint: how about you get a new system that goes to Vault heroic levels, but only 8 months after vault comes out.

A season might only last for 8 months. So 8 months after the start of any given season, open world players are already working towards last season’s Heroic raid iLvls, given that the new season provides LFR iLvls from open world content. (The gap between LFR and Heroic, as well as the gap between seasons, is 26 iLvls.)

(Is this your sly way of saying that the current system would be fine as is?)

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

@Eleusia-myzrael

as raid participation is getting lower and lower.

Have you considered the possibility that this effect (if it exists) is related to the world gear getting buffed in SL?

I would definitely say that world gear scaling to Normal raid iLvl leads to lower raid and M+ participation, and that world gear scaling only to LFR (or not being updated at all as in SL Season 4) could lead to more players doing group instanced content.

However, I say this with a few caveats:

—Casual or solo-minded players looking to simply gear up without a lot of social obligations are probably much more likely to do M+ than raid, or to queue for unrated BGs than do rated arena for example, so not all group instanced activities would be equally affected. Season 4 developers realize this on some level and probably restricted the slime cat mount to Normal+ raiding as an additional enticement, as the gear rewards alone might not be enough incentive for casual players.

—Even if you can get a higher percentage of active players raiding (and more raid bosses cleared in terms of absolute numbers) by nuking world gear, you are going to be dealing with a smaller overall population. More casual and solo players are going to unsub because they have nothing to do, than group content players are going to unsub because the inferior alternative of world gear progression is offered.

—You could conversely blame falling raid participation for the need to provide open world content in the first place. Normal+ raid participation dropped sharply at the start of Cataclysm, leading developers to promptly introduce LFR to get more players doing raids in any form. During WoD, when raids were the only form of PvE provided, sub numbers dropped to embarrassing lows because casual players had no worthwhile endgame progression other than printing gold in their garrison. It is no coincidence that Legion developers introduced an entirely new world quest system and emissary system to keep players engaged throughout the expansion’s life cycle.

If LFR had been introduced at the start of Cataclysm, or if Legion had come before WoD, then you wound have grounds to say that things like LFR and world gear killed organized raiding.

In the end, elitists are only concerned about protecting their elite status, but the financial reality is that MMOs simply cannot keep producing expansions if they do not have a certain number of subs. At some point, a smaller but extremely fervent playerbase is not going to be enough to keep even WoW afloat, unless Blizzard comes up with a way to further monetize on such a small but fervent playerbase.

Wouldn’t it be better for WoW to start acting like an MMO again, prioritizing sub numbers and putting out proper expansions? If only a small portion of players are raiding, Blizzard would never have to publish the numbers, and could go on producing raids at a loss if raider satisfaction is all Ion really wants.

[Murdercarpet-zuljin]

It’s like me saying I’m hardcore because I play too much.

[Blitzkareeg-area-52 (Blitzkareeg)]

@Sôsari-dalaran

Great, you led raids that are brain dead compared to modern wow and its mechanics. Your experience 15 years ago doesn’t mean anything anymore.

You truly are a piece of work. You talk down to everyone. Glad i do not have your life, you must be a miserable human being. Have more experience in my little finger than you have in your whole body in this game.

You talk like a spoiled kid living off mommy and daddys trust fund.

Lets try Vanilla, BC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, woD, and Legion.

@Critswalkin-cenarius

If the ilvl of gear given in WQs does not affect raiders then the ilvl of gear given in raids does not affect WQ solo players.

Who the heck asked for raid ilvl gear for WQ’s?

@Eleusia-myzrael

And world questers having Normal raid iLvl gear months into a season doesn’t affect your ability to complete raids or keys, either.

Exactly!

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

Have you considered the possibility that this effect (if it exists) is related to the world gear getting buffed in SL?

Just LMAO!

[Ðirelash-goldrinn]

@Eleusia-myzrael

Yes, but gear also allows you to do the same difficulty level of content more quickly, efficiently, or safely.

Have you never cleared the same difficulty level of raid more than once before?

You are acting like WoW is running world content on a separate engine where gear upgrades don’t matter.

Ok, so if you want the reward of 1 shotting every mob instead of just 2 shotting, it is currently only available for people who don’t stubbornly refuse to do every content that drops gear.

@Eleusia-myzrael

Gear provides power progression and is the actual reward. There is no need to go to the vendor if gear drops from the actual dungeons and you want to keep doing them.

Great job missing the point

@Eleusia-myzrael

the same thing can be said of players progressing through M+20s and Mythic raids.

No, because there is an actual increase in difficulty when going into higher levels. Sure, you can go full nihilism and say that everything is just numbers on a machine, but this is a video game, and the difficulty of this video game is tied directly to those numbers.

@Eleusia-myzrael

Similarly, getting better gear for open world content means that enemies go down faster and your character stays up longer. Gear iLvl is not just a random number, as it actually impacts gameplay.

Yes, indeed you will be able to finish the content that has no dificulty a bit faster if you have mythic level raid gear. But since your experience will be mostly travel time between one shotting mobs, it is not a significant enough increase to justify anything.

The combat is already extremely fast even with near to no gear. The difficulty is already 0, and it can’t go lower. But if you really really want to be as fast as possible, you just need to stop avoiding all sources of good gear.

Just pretend the dungeon is a quick world quest or something and you’ll be fine.

@Eleusia-myzrael

It’s not silly to want to see the numbers go up. Are you trying to make the preposterous claim that M+ players and Mythic raiders don’t care about their DPS or HPS?

M+ players and Mythic raiders use their dps and hps stats to be able to overcome higher dificulties. But it would be very silly for an M+ player to just farm timewalking badges over and over, withough intending to use them, just to see the number go up.

@Eleusia-myzrael

Reality check: All content outside of pet battles and vehicular combat is directly affected by gear.

Sure, it does have an effect, however it is very minor since you spend 95% of the time walking/flying. But honestly the idea that you will take 21 minutes instead of 20 minutes to get what you want does not keep me awake at night.

@Eleusia-myzrael

This is gross exaggeration, and you know it.

I don’t think it is an exageration, the last time I had trouble with outdoor mobs was at least 6 expansions ago. Sure, you might face some challenge if you try to solo content that is meant for large groups, however you will probably overcome that content a lot faster by quickly jumping into the group finder.

@Eleusia-myzrael

No, the game engine is running based on my character’s actual gear, not the sticker on my screen.

Well, since the game engine is programmed to let you win every time, you can just use the sticker if it makes you feel better, the game engine doesn’t need to know about it.

@Eleusia-myzrael

These types of players used to stay for endgame, but recently most of them don’t. They may enjoy leveling up and questing, but not organized group content. Give them an endgame worth staying for. Don’t you want WoW to be big again?

Ok, point me to an expansion that had an endgame activity that is not related to group content, and that we don’t have anymore.

@Eleusia-myzrael

Again, the number is not meaningless. Doing content on an undergeared character versus an overgeared charcter is a very different gameplay experience, even if you are just doing open world content.

I’m sorry but I have alts that I use mostly for professions and the experience of doing outdoors content with them doesn’t feel different at all. They never stepped into grouped content, and yet they can kill anything they want in less than 3 gcds instead of 1.

It is actually way more enjoyable to do outdoors content with them because of how boring one shotting everything with your spammable ability is. The game becomes world of travel time. Trading blows with the enemy for a couple of seconds makes it feel way less cheap and sad.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

Lets try Vanilla, BC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, woD, and Legion.

Any relevant experience would be in your Feat if Strength which is barren.

Blitzkareeg - Achievements (feats-of-strength) - WoW

Blitzkareeg - Achievements (feats-of-strength) - WoW

[Angelicus-faerlina]

Caustic arrogance, why does every elitist sound like a raging tweener? Stomping around the forums as if they never left highschool. Lookout, there is a 34 year old manchild wow savant in the basement with tiny t-rex arms.

I liked the titanforging legion daily era. It felt worthwhile to do, where often in the last expansion … there was zero reason to do any world content.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Angelicus-faerlina

Caustic arrogance, why does every elitist sound like a raging tweener? Stomping around the forums as if they never left highschool. Lookout, there is a 34 year old manchild wow savant in the basement with tiny t-rex arms.

Oh look at you, right back at it. The only one with the emotional intelligence of a child here is you. The one who insults people in nearly every post.

[Bloodypaws-frostmourne]

Still going?

lol guess you can’t tell players how to play WoW eh?

[Angelicus-faerlina]

@Sôsari-dalaran

Great, you led raids that are brain dead compared to modern wow and its mechanics. Your experience 15 years ago doesn’t mean anything anymore.

You’re last half dozen posts are degrading people. How rich of you to try and lecture me.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Angelicus-faerlina

You’re last half dozen posts are degrading people

Degrading? How? He claimed to be as skilled or more than someone else. They made a claim, but can’t substantiate it.

[Angelicus-faerlina]

The fact that you don’t know honestly saddens me. Your parents failed you.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

No the one one who has failed is you. The one who butts in without knowing the concext of what’s happening and making insults left and right.

The fact here is that we established you are a hypocrite who comes in here to do nothing but throw insults.

[Sambouki-malganis]

@Eleusia-myzrael

Unless WoW subs get so low that it affects the devs’ capabilities of putting out new content

When everything else you say fails, drag this one back out. “Give is free gear or subs!!!”

Get a grip.

[Sambouki-malganis]

@Bloodypaws-frostmourne

lol guess you can’t tell players how to play WoW eh?

No one is telling anyone how to play. Blizzard is telling you though that if you want rewards past LFR, you’ll be doing M+, raids; and arena.