How would you Retcon Shadowlands in a smooth way?

Lore Story Forum
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Mysticism:

Elune is a First one
Eternal Ones are children of First Ones, not robotic spirit hybrids.
Eonar is the sister of the Winter Queen. (Titan=> Titania)
Eonar and the WQ are daughters of Elune.
An’she/Belore is the father of Zovaal, the fallen Arbiter.

The Shadowlands from Mortal perspective

The ancestors support the Arbiter in his task and gather in Oribos, which exists only since the Maw. The Maw was originaly the city of the dead, the land of the ancestors of old, the great ones who were gifted by their deeds in life (often Shamans). The Maw after the war is a wound in the cosmos itself, a rift between life and death and this rift must be forcefully closed, otherwise it would consume both. The ancestors together with the Arbiter make a pact…to keep the Maw sealed, so those who become ancestor spirits stay in Oribos…as a portal between the mortal world and the world of the Shadowlands…they can therefore - on the verge between deadland and lifeland - still communicate with the living. As soon as they leave Oribos, however, this is no longer possible.

Zovals Rebellion:

Zovaal’s reason for his first rebellion was the eternal cycle of the First ones themselves, this cycle is a cycle of infinite destruction and Creation/rebirth, the First ones are spiritual manifestations of the universe itself, they have an interest in creating an eternal cycle, because as long as this cycle continues, the universe continues to exist, consequently also they.

Zovaal considers this “unnatural” condition as not right, because this universe cannot develop freely…as long as the First ones dominate it…he therefore rebelled against the order of the First ones.

The Eternal Ones (All children of First ones), finally rose up against Zovaal, united with the first one Belore/An’she, and he (Zovaal) was defeated…his father himself finally tore the seal from his body…and had his son branded with the seals of Domination…An’She/Belore…lies in the Sepulcher… for it was the last final battle when he fought his son and was mortally wounded…yet aspects of this First one are worshipped to this day…the elves call it belore, the tauren An’she, it is the same creature…the starmaker, the father of Zovaal…the fallen First one…the unforgivable sin of Zovaal.

And although his “body” passed away, his spirit is still there…as an echo what remains…in the universe, and until today he grants powers to the beings who need his help…

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In other words, ask them to code about ten times more the world size, character models, etc. than they did.

Not going to happen.

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Considering how the four covenants are talked about, this is almost true anyway. None of them are afterlives meant to act as afterlives, they are all purpose built (also Purpose-built) to aid the function of the Shadowlands.

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44

If they are unable to do justice, both narratively, conceptually, and thematically, to the world building necessary for the afterlife of the universe then maybe they topic should’ve been avoided

Instead they steamrolled their way through and over almost two decades worth of Narrative-Attachment (see Virtual Worlds by Castronova)

For the love of God, the new Zereth nonsense says that the Shadowlands is a CLOSED SYSTEM where nothing is lost or wasted

The Maw and Ardenweald are both net losses to the Shadowlands due to the nature of Spiritual Annihilation and Wild God Rebirth mechanisms respectively

It’s just so ridiculous if you care to use more than one brain cell.

This is indefensible

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45

Since the topic wasn’t really addressed, I’m not sure how more avoided it could have been.

That worldbuilding wasn’t necessary to the story itself. The story is about the 4 primary realms and the Maw. There’s no need to visit the Happy Hunting Growns, Stormwind’s idea of Heaven, the Night Elves Eternal Forest, etc. And the vast majority of races have no game lore AT ALL for the after life, i.e. Humans, Orcs, Gnomes, Dwarves, Draenei, or any of the Elves. That’s simply way too much worldbuilding that’s not relevant to the Jailor’s story.

And as we’ve already seen, they really didn’t have the functioning manpower to tackle what they did do as the shortage pretty much gave us a rather abridged expansion as it was.

As to the Zereth Lore, I’m withholding judgement until Release itself actually occurs.

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This is the Crux of the problem because

And in order to justify the Jailer and force him into the story and universe they

This entire expansion and it’s set up were material mistakes.

The set up (BFA) a mistake due to the founding event being a malicious act by an abuser and the expansion (SL) by a team largely ignorant of theology and metaphysics trying to Do A Thing while disregarding the psycho-social foundation for why and how players engage in virtual worlds.

Tldr the story sucks and is indefensible, and they lack the range to tackle the topics

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Whatever is done to “fix the story” should keep to the basic integrity of the two stories that introduced the story line “Elegy” and “A Good War”.

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No because both sucked

Like it’s wild that two authors agreed to write two short stories to double down on an abuser’s pathological fantasies in the game when he had already been removed from the team by that point.

We have the in-game narrative devices to allow for a full scale undoing of events + fast forward into a new canon

They ought to bite the bullet instead of white-washing Afrasiabi’s vile imagination

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I wouldn’t even do it in a smooth way. I’d just come out with a statement that says, “We screwed up. Everything post Legion is non-canon” and retcon it. Add some justification on why we go to Kul’Tiras and Zandalar and have the allied races, and that’s it. I wouldn’t even dignify this story by pretending it needs some sort of polite retcon that respects its autonomy as if it had actually happened.

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I’m not sure there is a “smooth” way to do it. Honestly with Eternity’s End there are one of two solutions. It was all a N’zoth dream and we stick with BfA as is, OR we use Zerith Mortis the cannon friendly Retcon device.

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Snarkiness temporarily replaced with shovelling exhaustion, I’m’a give an actual answer.

In 9.2, Blizzard is introducing Chekov’s Gun which also happens to be a quite literal Deus Ex Machina in the form of Zereth Mortis. Zozo can use it to rewrite reality to suit his wishes, top to bottom, using the six infinity sigils and Azeroth. We’ll presumably, like with most final expansion raids, have the Dev Insert NPCs with us; Sylvia, Tyra, Bolvasaur, Thrall, and the lump of garbage that sits around Oribobos, AKA Baine.

My preferred means of doing the thing; during the Zozo fight, as we enter Phase Whogivesadamn and we knock the sigils out of Zozo’s chest hole or whatever, Sylvanas scoops them up, tosses them to Tyrande, who draws on whatever Night Warrior power is left in her from Elune to 1) Take Azeroth out of the doohicky, and 2) turn back Azeroth’s timeline to pre-WoT. All those who died are restored to life as if they never died, Teldrassil and Undercity are back, and all the power-ups Zozo has gained from those souls is undone, weakening him so we have the chance to deliver the killing blow. This only affects Azeroth’s plane of existence, so we’re not dealing with resetting the Shadowlands and the paradoxes that might cause. We slap around Zozo until he gives us loot, leaving behind his depowered robot form, and return to Azeroth. We merge with our “past” selves, handwaved away with that whole “all time variants are threads in the rope of the soul” chicanery the devs used to explain away why we don’t see alt-universe people in the Shadowlands. The Shadowlands still needs someone to act as the Jailer of the Damned in the Maw, and Sylvanas volunteers to fill that role as penance for what she did/not-did (because of the Tyrande sigil retcon) and we avoid the entirety of BfA and the Shadowlands in the process. Now N’zoth can still be a bad, Azshara can be more than a mid-expansion villain, and Baine can see what could be if he continued being a garbage bag in tauren form.

Boom. Retcon accomplished, and BfA is proven to not be permanent.

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52

I think the best solution going forward is to advance the game’s narrative while mostly avoiding acknowledging Shadowlands story. It’s separated enough that it doesn’t have to be mentioned much. All that I’d change is have Anduin be more effected by his time being corrupted by Zovaal. He should be so damaged by it that he should be in a half-lobotimized state. Instead he’s just going to be annoyingly sad about it.

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If the same buffoons that gave us BFA and Shadowlands are in charge of what we get after the retcon.

What makes you think it would be better?

Its the same mentality that caused the same issues. Its like a old crappy car and all you are doing is replacing the wheels.
Well its the same crap engine as before, you are still going to end up in a ditch.

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54

I believe that we’ve already had departutres from some of that crew so it’s not going to be the same.

Also Microsoft will most likely be the new owners assuming it’s not bloced by the FTC.

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If its anything resembling what we have gotten with shadowlands I don’t think there is much to rejoice about.
it seems like with every patch the animations are being actively made. So if they wanted to change directions they could have.
Or change the whole situation with some adjustments to dialogues. There is nothing that indicates everything we have so far are unavoidable story plan that the scapegoat put in place while our victim Danuser & Sons had no choice but to continue.

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People leaving doesn’t guarantee that those left behind have learned the lessons needed to improve nor that they’re taking the care and having the foresight to recruit people with the necessary background and experience to avoid the same or similar mistakes in other capacities.

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Before the Jailer was revealed to be the last Arbiter I remember hearing someone come up with the idea that the “Machine of Death” aka the zones we encounter is specifically a death prison for the Jailet. Maldraxxus is the security force, Bastion snipes souls from going to the actual Shadowlands, Revendreth keeps it all fueled, Ardenweald functions as the cap on the bottle (as the Heart of the Forest apparently keeps Zuwuval locked up canonical somehow).

So here’s my 9.2 retcon revisal for this theory: The Maw is sentient. It hungers. Perhaps it’s the result of the Void trying to infest the Shadowlands and gorge on its souls for unlimited power.

The First Ones are only creators of all existence because of limited perspective or whatever mislabeling them and mistranslating their artifacts. They’re actually just the first souls to arrive in the Shadowlands at the dawn of time. The first sapient life to die. Since they’d been there so long, they figured out how death works and mastered its magic from beyond the veil.

Then the Maw pops up. They can’t destroy it but they can keep it from expanding and consuming everything. They created the mechanics to siphon souls out of the stream heading for the Shadowlands. Ever wonder why the Kyrian are needed to pick up souls, despite the fact they seem to flow pretty easily wherever they need to go without them (not a single Kyrian can be seen carrying souls in the Oribos toilet stream)? It’s to prevent them from passing on to the real Shadowlands. The First Ones assumed this was perfect then bailed back to the actual Shadowlands to find eternal rest once more.

The anima keeps things powered up to prevent the Maw from growing. The Jailer realized this, thought it’s really mean to force souls into it, and rebelled. The other Eternal Ones insisted on following the Purpose (that being containing the Maw at any cost), and they imprisoned him. As an added mark of cruelty, the Primus stuck the Jailer in the Maw, where his massive amounts of anima are slowly drained and dispersed into the front line countermeasures placed within the Maw.

The Jailer isn’t trying to rewrite reality to make it a realm of eternal suffering and dom. He had all his time in the Maw to figure out how to stop it from growing. He’s trying to enact that plan but the other Eternal Ones are telling us it’s bad because they refuse to change. Sylvanas knew about this too and also thought it was unfair people keep getting sucked into this crappy afterlife that puts them to work for eternity instead of what they were promised in life.

Not sure how to spin the Sanctum of Domination cinematic though. Guess we could go full Thanos knock off and claim he has developed a god complex while locked up. For thousands of years he’s sitting alone in a jail cell repeating to himself that he’s the only one who can save the universe. Even his fellow gods were wrong. So logically, he should be in control of everything. For their own protection. He didn’t tell Sylvanas this as he knew she has some severe problems with serving. At least until the end of 9.1, where he felt comfortable and arrogant enough to let it slip, hoping Sylvanas might be on board. She was not. Pity.

Then bam. Shadowlands still sucks but it’s not really the Shadowlands, preserving its mystique and saving us from a rehash of the “creator gods are robots and dead” trope. At least, it saves us from it being the answer for all creation.

Add some flavor text in the epilogue about how the Archon has finally thought things over from Devos and decided, hey, Zoozol might have been onto something. She hits the magic McGuffin reset button, plot kills the Maw, and the rest of the prison is dismantled. Draenor is free.

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Eternity’s End Redux: Fury of Voidfire

At the end of Sanctum of Domination, when Zovaal thinks he has the keys to unlock the way to the Sepulcher of the First Ones, the unexpected happens. Upon putting the Arbiter’s orb in his chest, he suddenly explodes. The explosion is made of the Void, which grows into a Void portal. A purple hand reaches out from it, grabbing Sylvanas and pulling her in. The portal then closes, leaving everyone in confusion.

The attendants explain that the Arbiter not only judged souls, but was a mechanism that prevented the Void from being able to invade the Shadowlands, created not just after Zovaal’s attempt to take over the Shadowlands but also after the Void had tried to invade Bastion. The Sephulcher of the First Ones was not a real place, but a metaphor for what the Shadowlands would become if the portal was opened. The last piece of the Remnant Of The Void that had been in the Emerald Dream manages to use this new opportunity to go to Ardenweald. With the mechanism to stop the Void destroyed, Ardenweald becomes corrupted, giving typical Old God side effects to the land but also burning some of the Tirnas in voidfire. The new zone for 9.2 is Voidweald, a corrupted version of Ardenweald that in gameplay is a separate zone.

The raid for this 9.2 is the Heart Of The Void, a corrupted Heart Of The Forest that has become the headquarters for the Void in the Shadowlands. The tree has started growing a purple ore around it as an outer shell to prevent people from getting inside. The growing ore has turned the tree into a fortress. The first boss is the Voidfire Assault, where players must break through a gate at the entrance to the Heart made from the ore. This ore is known as Voidiron.

The next boss is the Voidreaver. It’s a colossus that had been kidnapped from Bastion when that realm had been invaded. Players fight this boss after the gate is destroyed. Players then go inside and fight the next boss on the ground floor, Voidrok. This boss is a massive fleshbeast that was taken from Maldraxxus and corrupted by the Void.

Moving on to where you’d normally find the Winter Queen, the next boss is the Voidfire High Council. It’s made of three Ardenweald denizens who have been corrupted by the Void to rule in her place. They are Sparkledew, Kewarin and Flwngyrr. After their defeat, players move back downstairs into a newly created burrow in the trunk of the tree to fight the next boss, Ara’lon. His body has been reanimated by the Void to be put into its service.

From there, players move forwards to the next room, which is a pit that contains the next boss. This boss is Alexandros Mograine; we learn during 9.2 quests that in order to cope with being sent to Maldraxxus, Alexandros became a cannibal and resorted to eating the enemies he’s defeated, which is a habit he’s kept up while being sent to help in Voidweald. He ate Void creatures after defeating them, resulting in him becoming a bloated, mutated monstrosity. Defeating him unleashes a huge store of anima, which will be used to help restore the Heart Of The Forest. After this, players go back upstairs to where the flight master would normally be.

The next boss is Voidlord Denathrius. After Zovaal’s death and nowhere else to go, he joined the Void. After defeating him, players move on to a new floor, then fight the boss guarding it, Ventunax the Eternal. Ventunax was taken from the Spires of Ascension after its defeat there. After this boss, players move forwards on this floor deeper into the raid.

The next boss is Void Lord Nuukaz. We find this boss with Sylvanas, who has been tied to a small tree and is being tortured. When we start the fight, the bottom of the tree is caught on fire, so we have to defeat the boss before the fire reaches Sylvanas and she burns with the tree. This boss is a void creature with a cool looking axe. After its defeat, Sylvanas joins us in the raid.

Moving onto the next floor, we find the boss Zhal’heric. This is a void revenant that has begun to feed itself on anima. This has caused it to learn deadly death magic, making it a boss that uses both void and death abilities. Defeating it gives another large store of anima that will be used to heal the zone. We then move to the next floor.

On this floor is the next boss, Tyrant Niya. Niya has given herself to the Void in a bid for power. After defeating her we go into the next room where we find the next boss, Ilgynoth. Ilgynoth looks as he did in the Emerald Nightmare except blue, and gives cryptic lines that are lore hints like before. After him we reach the final boss, Mal’ganis.

Mal’ganis appears to be forcing Moonberry to open a portal. After Mal’ganis is defeated we get a cutscene, where he tells Moonberry that she made a pact, grabbing her and throwing her through the portal before he dies. The Winter Queen arrives, stating that should Azeroth ever need help, they will give assistance. Sylvanas then gives a speech and declares that the Shadowlands are free. Everyone applauds and cheers, the end.

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I was expecting a different story in Shadowlands. If they went that way BFA isn’t a problem.
What Jailer did to Anduin he did it to Sylvanas during Edge of night.
Sylvanas caries a part of Arthas in dormant state. After the shut down of the Arbiter Jailer gains enough power to awaken Arthas part. He takes control and he repeats himself during BFA. At some point we find what happened and in Shadowlands we save Sylvanas who was innocent all along.

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As I said on another thread a while ago …

Doesn’t the newest book say the tauren religion/idea of the afterlife is flat-out incorrect?