She is stating this is what they should have done before hand. That is, instead of destroying Alliance zones, they could added new ones for the Horde in Cata. I don’t care about the “balancing” of Cata tbh, I care more so that the zones were destroyed. Look at the Barrens… its smashed in half with the southern part a war zone. Cata sucked doo doo. I like the underdog part of the Horde too… them destroying ally zones is part of what began the path to Genocide. “This is just what the Horde does, it takes Ally zones and blights them and sets them on Fire, you HORDE guy love that right??? FOR THE HORDE!!!”
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Finally a Horde player that realizes this.
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You do understand that the underdog status could never have stayed right? Like, after a while maintaining it would have been SUPER artificial feeling. In order to properly do it they would essentially just have to make Thrall’s Horde just SUPER uninvolved in most of the major events since WC3 (just putzing around a desert hoping to the spirits that some other Alliance admiral doesn’t come in and wipe us all out). Seriously, it wasn’t even the Alilance … it was just ONE Admiral.
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That’s not what his point was.
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It depends on what you mean by this.
I disagree. Part of them being the underdog is how they overcome certain odds, and that could have been highlighted in w/e came after classic.
All besides the point tho. The alternative to being the underdog didn’t have to be a “return to our roots” as genocidal conquerors that burn down and blight alliance zones. It didn’t have to come at the expense of the alliance. It only did so cause blizzard doubled down, tripled, quadrupled down on the blatantly fascist gobbly goop basis of the faction war.
The Horde could have asserted itself as a beneficial force on Azeroth, and proved Varian wrong, by building itself up and helping with the other threats. It could had more humanizing stories for itself. Instead we get to burn down Ashenvale, blight all of the remaining humans in places like Hillsbrad, conquer the gilneans, drop bombs on a druid village in Stone Talon, nuke Theramore, etc etc etc… and that’s just Cata… with BfA it’s gotten even more ridiculous. I have to kill a friggin panda monk that’s healing the wounded while Lady Lliadrin is like “Yes!! Light willing! For the Horde!! Killthat dumb doctor!!”
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The doctor was not in her insurance plan?
And my point is this. Where were these new zones coming from? Where are these territories? Northrend is just about the only place the Horde could expand into (and that place is inhospitable at the best of times). Not to mention, again, the Alliance playerbase would scream at the absolute top of their lungs about the Horde getting BRAND NEW zones if they also didn’t get any.
I’ve seen people legitimately complaining that the Alliance LOST Azshara as a zone … seriously! They had THREE Night Elf NPCs in that zone and like 13 quests and they’re PISSED that the Horde managed to pickup a zone quite literally north of their main capital city. There are entire threads devoted to the outrage of the Junker Gnomes (because people expect the Horde to get the Vulpera, and somehow Goblins wearing Fursona suits and shallow lore makes Junkers insulting). You cannot expect me to believe the Alliance playerbase (that at this moment, some within this very thread, seem to find it insulting that the Horde be allowed to exist post BfA) would not scream in outrage at the Horde getting entire new zones to take (just as an excuse to remove the stagnant linear questing experience we had in vanilla).
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Like who cares though?? What does this have to do with anything??? I certainly wouldn’t have cared if the Alliance cried if Horde got new zones lmaoo because it’d make them look even more ridiculous… but since Blizzard decides to give us everything at the expense of the Alliance then it makes their cries look legitimate.
This is the flip side of coin of the Horde only being humanized whenever they do something good for the alliance… it’s the fact theyre only allowed to progress, to gain anything, by taking it from the alliance.
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You could help solve the cataclysm zone issue in two ways.
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Give the Alliance to fight back for their zone. Idk maybe have a phasing thing where you destroy the Horde advance and rebuild/retake your destroyed zones
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have the Horde deal with elementals or occupy newer zones for their leveling experience. Why was it necessary to insert Horde killing and invading Alliance as part of their leveling experience while the Alliance one was either dealing with a meme or some elemental destruction?
That is the underlying issue.
Each time the Horde story advances or they get something it comes at our expense.
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Julia already answered you exactly on this:
When Blizzard initially announced the loss of Southshore they said a tidal wave from the Cataclysm was going to wipe it out. Instead what they actually went with was plaguing the place.
I am curious. What exactly do you think the revamp of Hillsbrad and the Western Plaguelands were for? Do you honestly think that the zones were not written with Horde pride in mind? That the Horde side of the Darkshore Warfront was not written with Horde pride in mind?
You might point out that this was Forsaken pride, for Forsaken fans who enjoy the outlet that those sorts of storylines gives them. But those are still Horde fans, and, for the most part, before BfA, it was also something Honor Horde fans supported. Honor Horde fans liked that the Forsaken fans had their corner of the Horde to do what they wanted and that the Honor Horde fans would look the other way from because it made the Horde more interesting. Though the Honor Horde fans might not choose to partake in what Forsaken fans found interesting, Honor Horde fans did support the Forsaken fans getting this content, and took pride in the Horde over all for that content existing even if it wasn’t for them.
Which leads us to Sylvanas as Warchief and BfA. Horde pride lead to this.
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You do realize that, at the time of the Cata revamp, giving the Horde new zones they claimed independently, instead of taking Alliance zones (and in some instances, making Alliance players play through those losses), would have nipped one of the foundational pillars of Horde bias claims in the bud?
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The issue essentially boils down to this … one way or another for the Horde to take new territories they would need to take them from someone. Even if its not the Alliance, a growing Horde would have to expand into somewhere; and get new resources from something.
Beyond that, yeah … Blizz was always going to try to mess with the Faction Conflict thread … and part of the Faction conflict stems from territorial disputes between the Horde/Kaldorei borders on Kalimdor (and the Fosaken/Alliance borders on EK). The issue with the Vanilla zoning is … the Horde had nothing to really lose; so that push and pull had to come from somewhere.
And Kaldorei pride led to the destruction of 80 percent of the World’s Landmass. Eradar Pride led to the destruction of multiple planets. Whats your point? Don’t act like Vol’jin getting deep-sixed by trash mob was destined to happen (hell part of me thinks he was killed off because he’s about the ONLY Horde racial leader that wouldn’t have tolerated Sylvie’s BS in the slightest).
I also don’t recall being particularly prideful as Sylvanas strutted her newfound strength by killing just about the weakest people she could find around (also, what were those people doing in New Andorhal)? What on earth were the Alliance thinking allowing them to try to setup a settlement right next door to the Forsaken capital city (clearly without Sylvie’s consent or input)? At least with the NEs there was an uphill battle, they’re tough as nails … but the Northern EK conflicts really seemed to surround the Forsaken just butchering farmers.
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I’m talking about Horde fans’ pride, not Horde NPCs. The War of the Ancients was not playable until the Well of Eternity instance. Until then, Night Elf players had no involvement in it.
My point is about Horde fans, not anything you just covered. Here’s an example of my point:
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I’m curious about one thing. For the people saying the Horde should have gotten new zones instead of what occurred in Cata, where do these new zones magically appear?
Northrend? Outland? Islands?
Everywhere in the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor was taken by the new zones for Cata. Heck, Uldum was tacked onto southern Kalimdor. Should Blizz have done that for the new zones? Just add land mass where there was none before?
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As aweful as it is for me to say … good.
Bluntly, the only two things protecting the Forsaken this long were game mechanics and their affiliations with the Horde. The only reason they were absolved of their monstrous nonsense, is because Blizz would eventually have to dial back the crazy and cater to the REST of the Horde faction. On top of this, there is nothing more frustrating than the Forsaken never really growing out of their “Alliance of Convenience with the Primitive Races of the Horde” phase (which made all the times THEIR racial fantasy coming at the expense of the other racial fantasies all that much more frustrating). It was like we were giving up our identities for them for nothing.
They don’t need to lose their edge, but since they’re stuck on the Red Team (and would be rightfully purged from this world without us) … they need to at least find a way to live in a compatable way with the HORDE races at the very least. TBH, the Forsaken were overdue for a course correction for ages (not a Calia style one, but still … one).
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They could have had the same zones. Silverpine and Hillsbrad, etc. Just have them actually have been involved with the Cataclysm and had natural disasters have removed the Alliance from the areas and the Horde establishing themselves without the Alliance around to be involved one way or another.
And remove the Battle for Andorhal completely. It had nothing to do with balancing leveling zones for the Horde. It just gave the Horde an unnnecessary lore and phasing victory for no gameplay balance reason.
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'Yeah they could have if they really wanted. Not sure why people think they couldn’t have. It’s what they literally do for every expansion is make entire new continent and/or planets. Not sure what the problem would have been with adding some land mass and/or islands for lower levels in the old continents if they were really that hellbent on “balancing” the zones. But Blizzard is lazy in this manner to and the stories they’d like to tell usually involve destruction, not building things up.
Also this too.
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Plenty of the old world is/was unclaimed. Tanaris comes to mind. If Un’goro isn’t begging to be a Troll zone, I don’t know what is. Etc.
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