How will spell power work in Classic?

Enhancelord-korgath · February 12, 2019, 5:06pm

I was watching a video talking about what the rarest items in vanilla are and it came across these items explained here…

https://youtu.be/-VXJCtzEknU?t=745

He explains that in vanilla there was a 3.5 second rule in terms of spell power. This rule is explained to be (Cast time)/3.5= Actual benefit of spell power.

This means that if you cast a 3 second cast, it will only benefit from 86% of your spell power. But, items that reward +(specific)spell power it overwrote this rule. So if you are a mage and have on just +spell power gear that gives you 50 spell power you are only really benefiting from 43 spell power off your gear, so if you have a set that gives you +45 frost spell power, you would do more damage (obviously ignoring the other stats on said gear).

So with how the game is being created off of the 7.3.5 version of the game do you think it will still work like this? Do you think they would bother changing it?

Ekacarbez-moon-guard · February 12, 2019, 5:12pm

I think that it’ll work like this. I love Frostadamus- fantastic content creator. Check out more of his vids!

Enhancelord-korgath · February 12, 2019, 5:24pm

I hope it does! I like the idea of little hidden random items like this actually carrying some weight.

Boomsky-moonrunner · February 12, 2019, 6:15pm

You should also note that the way the spell power coefficient is calculated is a big reason as to why elemental shamans are ridiculous with gear. The way it works is that the coefficient is calculated before talents reduce the casting time. This means that locks/mages get 0.5s cast time reduction but eles get a full second off Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning from their talents.

Åpocalypse-illidan · February 12, 2019, 6:29pm

So am I understanding this correctly? +10 shadow ends up being a bigger boost to shadow bolt than +10 spellpower?

I had thought they gave equal contribution per point, but that specialized spell school gear simply costed less of the ilvl budget (ie a entirely hypothetical ilvl “X” item would net like 60 +shadow, but only 50 +spell power)… If it’s actually also giving a higher portion of that number to the spell, in addition to being bigger numbers overall via getting more of it per ilvl, then specialized gear is way stronger than I was giving it credit for back then.

Interesting to know.

Enhancelord-korgath · February 12, 2019, 6:36pm

Apparently yes it does. I didn’t know this either TBH.

Katerina-mannoroth · February 12, 2019, 8:00pm

In that case you’d want +10 spellpower, but you are correct about +dmg spellSCHOOL had a cheaper ilvl budget than +dmg by itself did. So on an item budget basis, getting the specialized gear was the better option in some circumstances and depending on the play style. Obviously +fire damage isn’t going to do a frost mage much good…

Enhancelord-korgath · February 12, 2019, 8:01pm

I think you may have missed the point of this post. +spellSCHOOL gives you a bigger benefit to your spells than +spellpower

So +10 shadow damage does more than +10 spell damage

Tarregor-dalaran · February 12, 2019, 8:07pm

so, if I’m understanding this right, when you have +1000 fire damage, and +0 spell damage, a mage will do more dps by spamming unimproved scorch against a target dummy than he would do by spamming fireball versus said dummy

but then the DoT from fireball would tick for an extra 1000 damage
yeah that doesn’t sound right; no way that the fireball DoT ticked for 1000 damage

that guy on youtube is a liar until i see a video of a fire mage’s fireball DoT ticking for over 200 damage

Katerina-mannoroth · February 12, 2019, 8:08pm

I honestly don’t remember that being “a thing.” Not saying it wasn’t just that I don’t remember the specialized damage/healing gear bypassing the 3.5 second cast time (pre-talent) normalization. I DO remember it being easier on the ilvl budget though.

Enhancelord-korgath · February 12, 2019, 8:09pm

That’s…that’s not how it works at all or what was explained…

I went back on some forums and found out it actually did which is crazy I didn’t remember it either.

Tarregor-dalaran · February 12, 2019, 8:12pm

so how am I supposed to interpret that then?
+fire damage on gear either abides by spell damage coefficient or it doesn’t

Katerina-mannoroth · February 12, 2019, 8:13pm

Heal/Damage Over Time spells had some slightly different rules applied to them, it’s been a LONG time, but IIRC the +power effect was averaged out over the entire duration of the spell.

Enhancelord-korgath · February 12, 2019, 8:13pm

Yes but this is regarding CASTED spells. Dots such as fireball ignite have different coefficients rather than the 3.5 rule coefficient for casted spells.

Tarregor-dalaran · February 12, 2019, 8:15pm

well then tell me what happens to a fireball, including the DoT, after you hypothetically put on an amulet that increases fire damage dealt by 500
then tell me what happens to a scorch after you equip the same amulet

then tell me what happens to both when you instead equip an amulet that increases spell damage and healing by 500

Priapis-proudmoore · February 12, 2019, 8:17pm

DoTs followed the same coefficient rules but it was based on the duration, not the cast time.

Enhancelord-korgath · February 12, 2019, 8:19pm

I have no idea as I don’t as I don’t know what the coefficient is off the top of my head nor do I know if the +fire damage bypasses any of the rules it’s coefficient has, nor did I suggest that a dot would.

Ok lets say Scorch does 200 damage + (coefficient)

Now lets say you have 100 spell power on one end and on another you have 100 fire damage

The spell power scorch will hit for 286 damage (200+(86% of 100))

The fire damage scorch will hit for 300 damage

As I said I am not sure if it bypassed whatever rules dots had or not. I am talking about the casted spells themselves.

Frawshawk-laughing-skull · February 12, 2019, 8:20pm

This may be helpful
Data taken from TheoryCraft addon for version 1.12.1.

DoT longer than 15 sec is calculated as 15sec duration.

Channeled or cast spell longer than 3.5sec is calculated as 3.5 cast spell.

These coefficients are before talents and gear improvements!

Example talent bonus:

Shadow Word: Pain - 18 / 3 = 6 ticks. 100% bonus, 6 ticks = 16.66%/tick

2/2 improved sw:pain = adds 2 ticks. Bonus is the same. 8 ticks = 16.66%/tick.

8 ticks > 6 ticks = more damage done.

Example talent bonus 2

Fireball = 3.5sec cast = 100% bonus.

5/5 Improved Fireball = 3.0sec cast. Bonus is the same. 100% bonus.

3.0 sec cast is faster than 3.5 sec cast = faster fireball cast = more DPS

MAGE

Frostbolt - 3/3.5*0.95 - 81.4%

Frost Nova - 1.5/3.5/3*0.95 - 13.57%

Cone of Cold - 1.5/3.5/3*0.95 - 13.57%

Blizzard - 3.5/3.5/3 - 33% - 4.125% per tick (8)

Arcane Explosion - 1.5/3.5/3 - 14.28%

Arcane Missiles - 3.5/3.5 - 100% - 20% per missile (5)

Fire Blast - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Fireball Direct - 3.5/3.5 - 100%

Fireball Dot - 0%

Pyroblast Direct - 3.5/3.5 - 100%

Pyroblast Dot - 70% - 17.5% per tick (4) (exception to the rules)

Scorch - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Blast Wave - 1.5/3.5/3*0.95 - 13.57%

Flamestrike Direct: (3/3.5)*(3/3.5) / (3/3.5 + 8/15) / 3 = 17.61%

Flamestrike DoT: (8/15)*(8/15) / (3/3.5 + 8/15) / 3 = 6.81% - 1,70% per tick (4)

Ice Barrier - 0.1 - 10%

WARLOCK

Shadowbolt - 3/3.5 - 85.71%

Soul Fire - 3.5/3.5 - 100%

Searing Pain - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Immolate Direct: (2/3.5)*(2/3.5) / (2/3.5 + 15/15) = 18.65%

Immolate DoT: (15/15)*(15/15) / (2/3.5 + 15/15) = 63.63% - 12.72% per tick (5)

Conflagrate - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Rain of Fire - 3.5/3.5/3 - 33% - 8.25% per tick (4)

Hellfire - 3.5/3.5/3 - 33% - 2.2% per tick (15)

Corruption - 15/15 - 100% - 16.66% per tick (6)

Curse of Agony - 15/15 - 100% - 8.33 per tick (12)

Curse of Doom - 15/15 - 100%

Drain Soul - 15/15 - 100% - 20% per tick (5)

Siphon Life - 15/15/2 - 50% - 5% per tick (10)

Drain Life - 3.5/3.5/2 - 50% - 10% per tick (5)

Death Coil - 1.5/3.5/2 - 21.42%

Shadowburn - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

PRIEST

Prayer of Healing - 3/3.5/3 - 28.57%

Shadow Word: Pain - 15/15 - 100% - 16.67% per tick (6)

Mind Flay - 45%

Mind Blast - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Mana Burn - 0%

Smite - 2.5/3.5 - 71.42%

Holy Fire Direct: (3.5/3.5)*(3.5/3.5) / (3.5/3.5 + 10/15) = 59.99%

Holy Fire DoT: (10/15)*(10/15) / (3.5/3.5 + 10/15) = 26.66% - 5.33% per tick (5)

Holy Nova - 1.5/3.5/3/2 - 7.14%

Power Word: Shield - 0.1 - 10%

Desperate Prayer - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Lesser Heal - 2.5/3.5 - 71.42%

Heal - 3/3.5 - 85.71%

Flash Heal - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Greater Heal - 3/3.5 - 85.71%

Devouring Plague - 15/15/2 - 50% - 6.25% per tick (8)

Renew - 15/15 - 100% - 20% per tick (5)

Starshards - 3.5/3.5 - 100% - 16.66% per tick (6)

Touch of Weakness - 42.85%

Shadowguard - 100% - 33% per charge (3)

DRUID

Healing Touch - 3.5/3.5 - 100%

Tranquility - 3.5/3.5/3 - 33% - 6.6% per tick (5)

Rejuvenation - 12/15 - 80% - 20% per tick (4)

Regrowth Direct: (2/3.5)*(2/3.5) / (2/3.5 + 15/15) = 18.65%

Regrowth HoT: (15/15)*(15/15) / (2/3.5 + 15/15) = 63.63% (9,09% per tick) (7)

Starfire - 3.5/3.5 - 100%

Wrath - 2/3.5 - 57.14%

Insect Swarm - 12/15/0.95 - 76% - 12.66% per tick (6)

Entangling Roots - 1.5/3.5*0.95 - 40.71% - 4.52% per tick (9)

Moonfire Direct: (1.5/3.5)*(1.5/3.5) / (1.5/3.5 + 12/15) = 14.95%

Moonfire DoT: (12/15)*(12/15) / (1.5/3.5 + 12/15) = 52.09% - 13.02% per tick (4)

Hurricane - 3.5/3.5*0.95/3 - 31.66% - 3.16% per tick (10)

PALADIN

One-Handed Seal of Righteousness - 10% per hit

Two-Handed Seal of Righteousness - 12% per hit

Judgement of Righteousness - 50%

Seal of Command - 20% of spell damage, 29% of Holy damage

Judgement of Command - 43%

Consecration - 33%

Holy Shock - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Hammer of Wrath - 1/3.5 - 28.57%

Exorcism - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Holy Wrath - 2/3.5/3 - 19%

Holy Shield - 5% per Block

Holy Light - 2.5/3.5 - 71%

Flash of Light - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Blessing of Sanctuary - 0%

SHAMAN

Chain Lightning - 2.5/3.5 - 71.42%

Lightning Bolt - 3/3.5 - 85.71%

Lesser Healing Wave - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Healing Wave - 3/3.5 - 85.71%

Chain Heal - 2.5/3.5 - 71.42%

Earth Shock - 1.5/3.5*0.95 - 40.71%

Flame Shock Direct: (1.5/3.5)*(1.5/3.5) / (1.5/3.5 + 12/15) = 14.95%

Flame Shock DoT: (12/15)*(12/15) / (1.5/3.5 + 12/15) = 52.09% - 13.02% per tick (4)

Frost Shock - 1.5/3.5*0.95 - 40.71%

Lightning Shield - 100% (33% per tick) (3)

Flametongue Weapon - 10%

Frostbrand Weapon - 10%

Magma Totem - 32% -

Fire Nova Totem - 15%

Searing Totem - 8%

Healing Stream Totem - 65% - 2.16% per tick (30)

HUNTER

Arcane Shot - 1.5/3.5 - 42.85%

Volley - 1/3 - 33%

Serpent Sting - 15/15 - 100% - 20% per tick (5)

Mend Pet - 3.5/3.5 - 100% - 20% per tick (5)

Wyvern Sting - 100%

Immolation Trap: 0%

Explosive Trap: 0%

Attack Power coefficients

There are only 6 abilities that gain damage bonuses from your attack power. These are:

Eviscerate - 3% per combo point

Ferocious Bite - 3% per combo point

Garrote - 18% - 3% per tick (6)

Rake - 6% - 2% per tick (3)

Rip - 24% - 4% per tick (6)

Rupture - 24% - amount per tick and number of ticks based on CP

Tarregor-dalaran · February 12, 2019, 8:21pm

scorch has a 1.5 second cast time; its coefficient is ((3/7)*100)% of your spell damage
so by that logic, scorch would hit for 243 with +100 spell damage, or for 300 with +100 fire damage instead

that gives me the impression that every damage value of that damage type is simply increased by x

Krackillz-sargeras · February 12, 2019, 8:23pm

I’ve never heard about the coefficient being different between spell damage and shadow/fire/frost/arcane/nature damage.

The following is copy pasted from a reddit thread about coefficients by spell.

inb4 pserver data…(probably isn’t 100% accurate btw, but its interesting to look at)

"Data taken from TheoryCraft addon for version 1.12.1.