The forum obviously allows you to make suggestions. Likewise we are allowed to dump all over a bad idea.
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Preservation has always been one of the driving force behind this project. Asking for changes irrelevant to vanilla before release should not be happening imo. They should be made after release. They haven’t even put down the foundation of what a vanilla server should be like and people asking for customized stuff added into Classic WoW just slows the process down. Any changes that people catch or suggest need investigating are all related to how they were in the early 2000s because it was in vanilla to make sure the foundation has accuracy in Classic.
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This is where we continually are reaching a disconnect. I’ve brought it up twice now, and you’ve not responded to it either time. Explain to me how insisting your 2019 car should be permitted to belong to a Classic Car discussion/club is different than insisting your 2007+ game mechanic should be permitted in a 2006 era remake.
- It’s technically possible, the car club could validate your 2019
- Your 2019 car has features that classic car owners at the time were probably asking for or would want if they knew existed
- Your 2019 car is likely objectively better (safer, quality of driving, creature comforts)
But, by stated goal of the Classic Car club, they want classic cars to be classic.
Do you view insisting a 2019 car be accepted into the classic car group/discussion any different than insisting your 2007+ idea be accepted into classic wow any differently? It seems like an apt analogy to me, and I can’t imagine you can earnestly say you would find it reasonable to insist that situation in a classic car community. That is just intellectually dishonest.
I’ll re-post it again (I know I’ve posted it to you many times), but Blizzard has literally stated the primary driving principle of Classic WoW is accurate 2006 representation.
Article: Restoring History: Creating WoW Classic Panel Recap
Source: Official Blizzard News Site
Date: 2018-11-03
In restoring World of Warcraft Classic, our guiding principle has been to provide an authentic experience. Things might run a bit smoother and the hardware is better, but the game should still look and feel like you’re playing World of Warcraft from 2006. Things like combat equations, original models, and hunter skills are certainly part of that—but things like social dynamics are a part of that too.
Just as that person has a right to ask/request/have the opinion that their 2019 car should be relevant to the Classic Car group, you have the right to ask/request/have the opinion that your 2007+ mechanic be included into Classic WoW. Technically the classic car club could change their mind, just as Blizzard could change their mind. But what an absurd turn of events that would be. To be surprised that your idea (not the person, we agree that attacking the person is garbage and inexcusable) is ridiculed and insist that it’s a worthy opinion/request is just insanity.
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Yes, this is correct - but take this for an example, let’s, once again, use Bethesda’s marketing stunt for Fallout 76’s Nuka Dark Rum. They advertised a product of their Nuka drink line, which are complete bottles and a beverage contained. Images of the bottle do not necessarily imply the material with which it is made. Text on the site does not mention plastic nor glass – nor any other materials with which the container of rum is made. Several stock images of coasters and glasses of dark liquid are shown, all with the Nuke Dark (rum with natural flavors & caramel color) logo emblazoned on their fronts and/or sides.
When the package arrived, the product wasn’t a whole bottle as advertised, it was a plastic shell surrounding a glass bottle inside. Amongst other technical and design mishaps, this translates well to Classic WoW.
Everyone knows, or should know by now, what Classic WoW is. It isn’t hard to see that they are using the same assets, the same mechanics, the same options, the same cinematics, the same items, with slightly tweaked elements that couldn’t be removed from the Legion client. It’s safe to assume that this is supposed to be Vanilla WoW.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it is a duck. Not what you think a duck is.
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Authentic is a tricky word. Literally just capping BfA at 60 is an authentic experience. Because it’s made by Blizzard. Businesses like Blizzard are intentionally ambiguous about things like that because they can say exactly what you want to hear, but still be free to not be bound by it. They said it would be authentic, but they never said it would be identical. And they never gave themselves any legal obligation to never change their mind on things. Even vanilla alone was full of 180s on their views on stuff.
Blizzard is allowed to change their minds, and people are allowed to suggest those changes.
Until the day that you own Blizzard, you’re not in a position to demand that they only follow that one original view. Other ideas are going to be suggested, and if they decide they want to follow it, then just deal with it, because again, it’s THEIR creation, not yours.
This is odd as the definition of authentic is
of undisputed origin; genuine.
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Oh come on now. Really? Did you see the quote from Blizzard?
but the game should still look and feel like you’re playing World of Warcraft from 2006. Things like combat equations, original models, and hunter skills are certainly part of that
Literally stated as 2006 era accurate down to the internal math/calculations and skills. How do you interpret that as “They could just mean reducing the cap to L60 and nothing else!”. You’re just being intentionally obtuse to dodge the points being made now.
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They had 100,000+ signed petitions asking for a Vanilla server just like it was back in the early 2000s so they could play it legally. That’s what started this whole thing. Do you think those people are going to come back to anything that isn’t at least 99% authentic to what a Vanilla server was back then? No. Blizzard wants those players and that is why they will make it accurate to how it was back then. They are doing it for those same players so they have a place to play instead of private servers. If they don’t do this and do it right those same players are just going to go back to private servers and Blizzard would fail. Blizzard doesn’t want to disappoint those players and this is why they are doing it.
A lot of people forget where this all came from.
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You seem to want a forum where no one can call out your bad ideas
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This video needs to be added to the OP so its readily there.
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Because this isn’t a classic car forum. It’s the World of Warcraft forums, and this is the Classic forum where people can talk about classic as it currently exists, and how they would like to see it exist in the future.
At the top of the CoC:
Welcome to the Blizzard Forums! These forums are here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss ideas
Also, the forum participants are in a private forum owned by a company, and do not get to make the rules about what can and can’t be discussed. The CoC holds you to treating people with dignity and respect, and to stay away from the harassing behavior. Like gold selling, there’s a high probability you can get away with not obeying the CoC simply by being one of many in a very large pool for Blizzard to search through. Eventually, however, anyone who is violating the CoC is going to have their luck run out. It’s better to just start acting like a decent person because that’s who you want to identity as rather than have bad outcomes because you couldn’t let others have an opinion that is distinct from yours.
This thread also proving my point. The topic is how can we be less toxic to each other, and the people who do not want changes are trying to open up the debate on why their opinion is fact yet again.
You entirely dodged his point yet again to claim he is disrespecting you.
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Just to remind everyone, let’s point out a few things:
No, I am not engaging in a discussion that is off topic for the thread. As I have said, that is the behavior that needs to stop. That’s the whole point of what I’ve been saying. You entirely dodged my points yet again to try and talk about why you think your opinion is fact.
Weird how the timing works out though. It was NEVER confirmed that the petitions were the cause. Actually, if you follow the interview with their old CM, they were working on the game for about a year before announcing it to the CMs, which came before they announced it to us. Shutting down Nostalrius could have been part of their already existing plan to build classic, something that throughout the years, they’ve always had an interest in doing, but didn’t have the means to practically invest in doing it. Nost existed at the perfect time though. Streaming is big, and people are getting rich off of it. Off of streaming their game on illegally run servers. There’s an old saying: follow the money.
Asking for transmog in Classic is literally the textbook definition of toxicity.
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I’m convinced that’s his strategy. Exhaust the opposition mentally by dodging the topic at hand over and over. Somehow the CoC gets looped in when I even made explicit point to agree with him that any harassment/guidelines breaking is uncalled for and should be actioned.
In spite of his refusal to deal with logic, at least it seems Blizzard is maintaining course for classic being classic.
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I wouldn’t engage them on the no-change debate. They’re trying to bait you into a discussion that’s off topic and serves no purpose. You already made a bunch of great points about what’s really going on here. We can discuss our ideas for the game as much as we want, and if they want to continue to try and stop us, they can risk their accounts.
Guess you two could trade emails?
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The team of Nostalrious, the private server Blizzard shut down by a cease and desisit, flew out to Blizzard HQ by invitation and had a meeting there after the petitions were delivered to drive the Idea forward. The petitions and Blizzard meeting the private server owners of Nostalrious is how this caused them to make it official. Blizzard was totally against making legacy servers to begin with but changed their minds and made it a surprise reveal at Blizzcon. Those 2 factors is why we have Classic WoW in development today. If you are still denying that then you are literally spitting in those very faces that are the driving force for this project. It’s naive to even think that to say the least.
Also, Blizzard have always had the means to shut down private servers and have down it before countless times. One thing was different about Nostalrious and that was the people that wanted these shut downs to stop by having Blizzard make an official way for them to come back to wow and play the version they loved so much.
Money comes from all those people that petitioned Blizzard to make it happen. The market is already there when they don’t have to do anything but reintroduce an already made game.
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