There is a CoC, MVPs, and CMs who dictate what is and is not considered violating behavior. Your definition does not agree with there defintion, and it is there definition that dictates whether you are using the forums correctly. So you need to start respecting people who are posting opinions of game features you don’t agree with. A game feature in of itself is never going to be against the CoC unless it’s egregiously inappropriate or offensive.
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Transmog and Tokens as additions to Classic are egregious, inappropriate and offensive.
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100% on board with these sentiments. No excuses for that behavior, and anyone abusing forum mechanisms or harassing behavior should be actioned against according to community guidelines.
This is where you land into subjective land. I feel that the insistence on making changes that Blizzard has already stated they aren’t going to do (per their literal published guiding principle for Classic WoW) is unconstructive feedback that serves no use. The insistence that Blizzard and the greater Classic WoW community cater to your preference and make exemption after exemption on their core guiding philosophy is an obnoxious protest/campaign.
So on that basis, you might as well ban #catertomychanges threads, no? See how that’s subjective?
The WoW community deserves so much better than to have people’s hopes for the game to remain true to Classic WoW be constantly challenged on the basis of people who insist the game should change to suit their preferences.
See how that works both ways? The level of narcissism oozing from your posts to suit your own threads and censor opposition is just ridiculous.
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Then I suggest you use my first post in this thread as a handy guide on how to alter your behavior to have more productive conversations with people whose opinions about the game lead you to that conclusion. As long as they are discussing game mechanics, there’s is an almost certain chance the post is constructive feedback as long as it’s presented in a respectful way.
You cannot turn every thread into a meta-discussion about whether you think changes should be allowed in the game or not. It obviously ruins the point of the forums, which is for each thread to be an independent and engaging discussion about a specific feature or a request for a feature. If you continually argue the same point in every post that we should not be discussing feature requests at all, then your input stops having any value.
Having a hope or dream is different than something actually going into the game. Telling people their idea isn’t valid is denying them the ability to even have the idea in the first place, have a discussion about the idea, and foster creativity as other players are inspired with their own ideas.
If you feel that the game is perfect the way it currently is, then there’s really no point to even engage on any of these topics, as you’re not going to have anything constructive to say.
The fact that you have continued to accuse me of narcissism should be an indicator to you that perhaps you’re not considering your own behavior. My original post was about building empathy and having a conversation built upon a framework of mutual respect and understanding. These things are the enemies of apathy and are the best way for us to proceed on the Forums.
Some ideas are not valid. All wishes and desires are not deserving of respectful support. Some ideas need to be harshly put down. If you are not heard here, take your idea to an audience that might be more favorable, if you can find one. Otherwise perhaps you should take the hint before it becomes a sledge hammer.
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If I suggest that Classic not be implemented with city battlemasters. My idea will meet disagreement, perhaps much disagreement. But because it falls within the Blizzard stated guard rails of Classic design, I will not be considered a troll.
Bad ideas do not deserve consideration and resolution through compromise. Bad ideas should be rejected outright is they are egregious.
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You do not have to support them. You do have to be respectful of them, and allow them to have their conversations on this forum just as much as anyone else has a right to have a conversation about the game. Abusing Forums systems and continuing to act as though you and a select handful of other players are a mob capable of silencing others isn’t the right way to behave here, or anywhere.
You would not be violating the CoC, because your suggestion is a game mechanic, an idea that is obviously not inflammatory to any reasonable person. It works the same way for your idea and any other idea for the game where the Player sincerely believes that their idea would have a positive affect for themselves or for a subset of players.
I want classic, and you don’t speak for me. You need to stop convincing yourselves that everyone shares your opinion. There’s not only one way to want classic WoW. And everything from being exactly how vanilla was all the way to pretty much a BfA clone capped at level 60 and put into the original Azeroth are all 100% valid and reasonable requests. You don’t have to agree with them, but you need to learn to respect them.
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No I do not have to respect them. I may also treat an idea with contempt.
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Well I’ve tried to be reasonable with you and take the time to explain why that type of behavior is toxic to our community. The vast majority of WoW players in game are good people who pride themselves on the fact that we have a community were we can be respectful of each other and still disagree. No one can force you to act a certain way, but I encourage you to think about the negative affects that line of reasoning has on personal relationships with other people, and what our community would come to if we all thought that way.
Everyone deserves to be respected here, and given the chance to have a productive talk about features they want to see in the game.
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Respect for an idea and respect for a person are two very different things. Please don’t conflate them.
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This thread… What have I done?!
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Both deserve respect. Just because you disagree with someone’s subjective opinion does not mean that you should treat it as though it’s bad. There opinion is no more valid than yours.
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Go ahead and run with my analogy then, because I feel it’s quite apt. You’re arguing to a Classic Cars group on why they should permit you to participate with your 2019 car. When they shut that down and tell you it’s against the principle of the entire group, you get upset and insist that your feedback is valid and should be considered.
Quite literally, that is the effective analogy here. Blizzard has stated Classic WoW will be classic, and you’re not stepping in insisting modern changes. If you can’t draw the correlation between the analogy and reality, I can only assume you are being intellectually dishonest just to serve your means out of selfishness.
Since you routinely disregard the bulk of my replies when it suits you (I know, they’re “Too long”. Ugh. So inconvenient!), what’s your response to my prior commentary about lobbying for a different ruleset server?
Why do you get to insist upon your opinions being validated and inherently have them elevated as a change to Classic WoW? Why is the defense against that inherently unconstructive, again where you insist we just shouldn’t post at all (censorship).
What’s wrong with lobbying for a different ruleset server? It would make the most sense and be that compromise you are demanding be offered.
You both seem to be misusing this word here. Perhaps you need to define “respect”. It seems like you are interpreting it as “validation” and that people deserve to have their opinions validated.
Much like free speech in America, you have the right to be heard (you have the right to post). You do not have the right for your idea to be respected. In the contrary, everyone else has the right to ridicule your idea, tear your idea apart, and point out how absurd it is. The only limitation there is of course how we already mutually agreed that harassment and abuse of forum mechanisms has no place in either side.
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Are you sure about that? Because I’m pretty sure there’s only one instance of Vanilla WoW in the game’s history, and considering it’s being recreated, I find it very difficult to believe that wanting Classic in any other variation is the same experience.
Regardless - I acknowledge your post OP, and I feel like this is definitely something to consider for anyone who is proposing these “changes” posts. I feel like most of them are generally not well thought out, and constructed purely off of personal opinion with no factual evidence or reason to supplement it. Only when criticized, it turns into an emotional argument with a lot of “you’re wrong because I enjoy xyz modern system and it’s used a lot in the current game” etc.
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Well Blizzard isn’t the government, so “free speech” doesn’t apply. And to give an idea of what we’re talking about, back when I first came onto these forums, I was relentlessly attacked for having a different opinion. No matter what I said, I was called a troll, and repeatedly targeted by the same group of people for “trying to destroy their game.” Blizzard has specific rules against that.
You’re allowed to disagree, but what these forums are filled with is attacking the poster, which you’re technically not allowed to do on here.
The general theme of the COC is to treat people with respect. That respect doesn’t just only depend on whether or not they share an opinion of what classic should be.
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You’re missing the point of what I’m saying. All I’m asking you to do is be nice on the internet. You don’t have to agree with me. What is and is not valid on the forums has already been decided by Blizzard, and that includes ideas. People have been making posts about which direction Blizzard should take their games in since they first spun up the first forum web server.
Ultimately it sounds like you, and the people who disagree that anything should be changed about the game are going to continue to make excuses for your behavior. My original post in this thread was focused on things any decent person should do in a social context. The topic of a debate is not a reason to augment your behavior towards someone, especially when they are perfectly in line with bringing their topic to the forums.
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This is most certainly the best thing that has been posted in this thread thus far. When we all realize this, the forums are a much better place to grow our community.
Obviously attacking someone for their opinion and perspective is wrong, but - I’ve seen the way you treat other people, and myself. You can’t play the pity card after some of the things you’ve said, and expect people to not be more brash towards you. While you can still be more critical, you can also be respectful about it, where you, in some posts, have lacked that same respect, so I find this a bit hypocritical and a tad insulting that you’re posturing yourself in such a manner.
That being said - a lot of people have already made this perfectly clear, including Ion Hazzikostas and J. Allen Brack himself; they have said Classic is a recreation of Vanilla WoW. Something that myself, along many others have been asking for, for nearly a decade. Yes, you are allowed to have your opinions, thoughts, and ideas as to how the game should be constructed, but they are not applicable with Classic World of Warcraft. They are restoring the old world, with the old spells, the old talent trees, and just because they were not capable of stripping all the graphical assets from the Legion client, does not validate or warrant changes. It should be pretty self-evident that the only changes that will be taking place are the absolutely necessary ones to the health of the game. If you are going to post the thought of a “change”, or how the game should be, in your opinion - you should expect to get some heat for it. That isn’t to say I’m advocating for people to attack posters for their opinions, but more of the fact that you are fully aware what you are doing, and suggesting, which will invoke people’s feelings, considering, myself included, have been pushing for such for nearly a decade, some longer than even I have. That means you are playing into people’s emotions, and what they possibly have very strong emotional attachments to, so when that is the topic of contention, yes, you are going to be the target of a lot of controversy.
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