"If Ret had enough damage or MS to not kind of need an MS partner, and enough damage to not care that its mobility and pvp effective CC is the lowest like the 3 days after 10.0.7. launch, that would be a dream come true.
Rets talk about spec features it doesn’t have because helping others until that help is dispelled doesn’t feel like compensation."
This brings us full circle to whether or not Ret is viable without the standard melee kit, which it usually is. TBC was a transition from Vanilla awfulness; Ret didn’t really find its legs until Wrath. It was great through most of Wrath but fell off a bit towards the end due to wizard domination. Ret sucked at the start of Cata but was great for the rest of the xpac. Ret was mostly limited to playing with hunter in MoP and WoD but that was a pretty good comp. Actually I think I got Glad in the first season of WoD playing with my rogue friend when Combat had 8-sec Kidney, lmao.
I don’t remember doing much PvP in Legion and BfA, so maybe someone can fill in the blanks there. War-Ret was S tier in Shadowlands. Ret started bad in Dragonflight, was broken in the other direction for a while, and ended an S tier spec. TWW stated bad and now we’re decent.
To summarize, Ret is usually viable and I think that Rets have a bit of a victim complex. It made sense if you played in Vanilla, but we should have moved past it by now. It’s fine if you dislike the design, you have every right to request it be changed, but arguments that it doesn’t work are factually wrong and tiresome.
No offense intended to anyone ofc, and with that I’ll bow out of this convo.
Well that’s what I mean, I think there can and should be healthy overlap, especially in the case of Arms and Ret due to their fantasy, but I do think Arms Warriors have the potential to be more “defensive” than a Paladin.
Over the years, Arms has accumulated a lot of defensive utility that it’s never had before, and it may be time for them to get a review of kindof where it is they stand.
Similar to this last patch where Paladin’s Class tree got a second past and noted Blizz wants to emphasize their ability to off-heal/support.
At the same time, giving Ret a review of where they stand in terms of Cooldowns and PvP talents.
I think these classes have more options, like Mage/Lock, Mage/Spriest, Mage/Monk, etc… or DH/Boomie have been relatively good for a couple expansions now, but I think this leads more to the modern day problem of Ret.
This is the “sitting on fence” problem I spoke of earlier.
I’d argue “usually” depends more so on your comp. Its fairly rare for Ret to play without a partner that has MS, outside of Demo Locks occasionally.
DH can play with 90% of the classes.
Warrior can play with 90% of the classes.
Rogues (for sure Outlaw) can play with 90% of the classes.
Monks can play with 90% of the classes.
Enhance and Ret are usually sitting around 60%.
Give Paladins that MS and bump them up to 90% (sorry shaman) or de-homogenize the game and bring those others down a notch.
Like I said, I try not to be whinny, but … Ret is a lot more freaking fun to play now that it doesn’t have to scrutinize over Forbearance and Bubble… that stuff doesn’t just happen on its own.
