Did you just not read anything I wrote?
When you write something of substance, I’ll start giving it more weight.
Not a single person gives a damn if you and a few other snowflakes pretend to wargame. You aren’t statistically relevant.
The fact is, that EXACTLY like twinking, premades are nearly entirely there to pubstomp.
And wargames are still going on multiple times a week
I don’t know what to tell you, you can stay mad about premades wargaming each other every week
You are talking specifically about pugs who joined a random discord and grouped up with a horrible comp who break up once they fight good premades. Those groups aren’t actually premades, but you’re using them to define your narrative. 9 out of 10 “10 or 15 mans” are trade chat pugs
Why haven’t you reached out to the wsg groups if you consider yourself so good? From your past history you do consider yourself competent and I’m sure you are.
So what gives?
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That’s where you misunderstand how good pvp games rise.
Good pvp games are about having a good meta that can push skillcap and let players make amazing plays. It needs to breed competition.
The players that are just in WSG farming honor - the masses of wow ‘classic’ players that are in anniversary for the hamster wheel - I hate to tell you, simply don’t matter to the future of the game if it is ever to become popular. They had 20 years to learn to play and still can’t so we must assume that they never will.
But WSG and vanilla pvp is one of the best pvp games humans have ever made and some people see that. That’s what matters.
and premade vs pug does that how? Or obvious terrain exploits that favor certain race/gender combinations?That’s what you’re defending.
Good pvp games arise entirely on the back of popularity and mass appeal to generate a constant churn of new players into the system.
Wow arena’s aren’t a graveyard because they spent to much time catering to multiglads, wow arenas are dead because wow was losing population for years, and because the system offered lower rated players no real rewards. The rating system is pyramid shaped, and the base of the pyramid left. That’s why you where running into multi time rank 1s in the 1700s.
This might be the single most delusional thing I’ve ever read. It’s never going to be more popular until vanilla classic gets more popular, and vanilla classic isn’t getting more popular when we’re already running it for the 4th time in the last handful of years (counting classic, SoM, Anniversery, and I guess SoD only… not even counting any pservers) SoD had a big initial bump because it actually brought something new to the table, but the pvp there was a damn trainwreck. Being quite honest, Anniversary’s PvP has been pretty damn bad as well so far. WSG continues to have all the same exploits, is filled with low quality games of premades pubstomping all day… while AV is barely pvp at all, and still has the same issue with degenerates intentionally capping snowfall to “troll” their team for 20-60minutes by forcing a turtle (horde issue at least, snowfall seems fine for alliance). Nothing about this right now is going to get more people in the game, or increase participation as a long term trend. Most people pvping are miserable doing it right now, and only there for welfare r14 gear… which is a product of honor/hour, not “good matches”.
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Most of the actual important jumps can be done by anybody. There are a few requiring specific models that don’t matter as much as you think. My Druid back in 2020 was a literal male model it didn’t matter
I can agree with you on this. Anniversary has had the worst pvp by far of any server, even SOD with its horrendous design was better at least early on just due to participation.
But this isn’t actually a wsg or ab issue, it’s just the byproduct of the new ranking system and how ab and wsg cannot be used to rank to cap even if you win every single game.
There are people who believe AB is going to change the scope of PvP when it comes out - it isn’t
It will be alive for its first weekend and then people will realize you can’t cap in there. And nobody needs the rep for the dagger with BWL coming out
Of course its bad, it is the same players that were in SoD.
They afk and cry at the slightest friction and most of them have never actually made any effort to learn how to pvp, or play the BG.
All vanilla WSG needs to grow is MMR.
The problem at the moment is everyone is forced to play with players that are just downright miserable to pvp with. Toxic players that can carry their weight are way better for pvp than players who make zero effort. There’s literally no way to even play WSG with a decent chunk of ‘classic’ players, they aren’t even playing the game, they just sit at GY and wait to lose.
Delete it, only degens play WSG. It is terrible.
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I wanna play wsg. I wanna ACTUALLY play wsg. Not play chase the druid around doing map breaking jumps that only he can do.
Not sure what retail WSG looks like havent played it since BFA and that was the first time i played retail WoW since BC
No been playing Warrior since Vanilla
True but why should i have to rely on that when i should be able to just look at the character and see? Idk this one is more of a nitpick rather than a real request
I dont want TDM i want ACTUALY CTF lol
“nerfing jumps” most other classes cant even perform these jumps.
I would never say that it doesnt take a lot of skill on the druids part however id argue that it still defeats the purpose of a CTF game where youre avoiding 70% of player abilities through class design and faps/engineering rather than coordinating
in a team game to get the flag out of the base
The game wasnt this meta in 2004
I agree. The jumps would make a massive impact. In regards to Faps it just feels ridiculous on some level. Imagine playing AB and youre going to cap a base and you pop a consume that makes it so you cant get interrupted while capping. You still take damage but you just cant be interrupted unless you have one of the few CC abilities that the consume allows to interrupt your capping.
I get this sentiment but sometimes theres long turtle games and it just sucks that your option is one team has to “give up” or you have to take the 15 min deserter debuff because youve been in a stalemate wsg for 45 minutes.
I literally play it every day right now lol. Its frustrating sure but its more fun than AV
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What does this statement mean? The game mode is CTF. You’re supposed to chase the person with your flag and return it.
You should be paying attention to debuffs anyway. Very odd complaint.
There are very few of these. I’m all for making all jumps accessible by every race/gender combo. I’m also ok with removing out of bounds jumps. They can result in some really funny moments, but I can understand why these are frustrating for most players.
This is very easily countered. This point is a result of bad comp/players. This is why it’s frustrating to pug WSG. Priests and Shamans in pug games rarely dispel or purge the efc.
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Chasing implies players can actually effectively catch the flag carrier at some point. In most games flag carriers are made SLOWER when carrying a flag and are put at a disadvantage because the point of CTF is PROTECTING the FC not just having the FC zip passed everyone.
Imagine if mage ice block or pally immune bubbles didnt show their animation because they were transmogged into a skeleton?
Seems like poor design then if you get into a group that doesnt have a shaman or priest and youre just SOL? I dont feel like its unreasonable to think that an FC shouldnt be able to FAP when their class can already be either a tank or be fast and break all roots and slows just by constantly form swapping. Now they dont even have to make that choice half the time because they can fap.
Its only easily countered if you have 1 of the 2 classes that CAN counter it.
You can. You say you play everyday, if you did you would know how this is done.
This isnt “most games”. This is “this game”
You can dispel noggenfogger
Battlegrounds require balanced team compositions. if you try playing them with a bad comp you will lose. This is nothing new. If i have 5 warriors on my team im gonna lose vs a team with a druid 2 mages and a hunter when my offense is a bunch of wheelchair browns. It’s the same thing with AB. This is how the whole entire game is since classes are not homogenized
Sure ill just mount up after the fap wears off and charge the druid oh wait entangle roots and i stare at the FC running away.
Im not saying its IMPOSSIBLE im saying the design is not fun for most classes
Great argument
Congrats they just drank another
Except the issue here isnt “enemy team has this class and we dont”
its "enemy team has consumable that requires specific class to counter. If i could farm for a counter consume for a fap id get one. And if there is a consumable that i could farm that dispells fap please inform because im not aware of one
I see where you’re coming from but there’s counters to everything assuming your team isn’t completely braindead, which I’ll admit a lot of people are. The only exception is perhaps safe-spots (i.e. out of bounds, ally garden, behind horde base etc.). I queue pugs with an fc the majority of the time and we definitely lose alot of games vs good pugs that know how to play their class, and there’s no amount of jumps, noggenfogger, faps, engi that can save our druid when opposing players use their abilities and play the game (esp. if teammates are bots). I will admit that having certain classes 100% helps and that’s just luck of the draw (a rogue/other classes that knows how to intercept, priests/shamans that know how to dispel, warriors that know how to ms, a few that know how to press spacebars)
Yes, and your team will be dispelling the fap, and your priest will be dispelling your roots. If your team comp doesnt have dispellers well, thats why people dont like to play pugs. the games are bad
It’s a fine argument, because youre pointing outside of the game.
if theyre popping noggens on someone spam dispelling them theyre wasting their time and gcds.
And?
If your mindset is you wanna do everything by yourself you are going to lose. i dont know what to tell you. Invite a priest friend. The classes have very distinct roles in vanilla, its not like the expansions
So you need a comp of 3-5 players to chase down a single druid fc with a fap and engi items. Seems like poor design
Uh sure if you think comparing an identical game mode to other ones that are much more fun to play is a bad argument
And…this is bad design
But druids with faps and engi are allowed to do 80% of WSG by themselves and thats okay?
Which they should. We’re talking about consumes when carrying a flag
How is it poor design to promote teamwork?
Is wsg not a team effort?
It’s an identical concept, its not an identical game mode because for example, CTF in a game like warhammer will not be recognizable to wow. A wow “class” will be entirely different.
Promoting teamwork is not bad design, it is intentional.
Thanks, then there is no problem
Consumes are in the game to be used. There are no instructions on how to use them. There is no rule saying “faps are only for raids”. It’s an MMO not an RBG or ladder mode
Sure if it meant i needed 3-5 people to take down 3-5 people
Not 3-5 people to stop 1 person lol. Not sure how youre missing that
See above
Then why do certain consumes like LIPs make you drop the flag? Seems like something that was overlooked in game design. Kinda like when people hoard world buffs for raids and the creators were like “uhh we just implemented it because it was cool we didnt want people to not play the game just to optimize raids”
A rogue and priest/shaman alone can kill a druid. A bear druid is going to be hard to solo. Not sure why thats a problem.
You keep talking like you want to be able to just solo a druid. If the FC is like a rogue or priest or something you can solo him - so that goes back to my point of classes have better roles than others.
Some classes suck at certain things. Do you think a druid has much of a use doing anything else in WSG besides FCing? No, theyre terrible at everything else
Because LIP is a partial invulnerability like bubble, which also makes them drop the flag. Thats just what the game is. You play classic, you choose to play it with all of its weird quirks
I mean not really, but you chose to the play the game and this is how the game is.
This is a straw man argument.
A rogue maybe if you catch him in travel form. And again if hes fapped rogue isnt soloing the druid before he escapes. But if he gets into bear form and stalls rogue isnt killing. Priest shaman? nah Priests only have 1 fear and its close range. Druid is dusting both of them before they can even catch up to him.
No but seeing a druid with fap run through 5 people and escape almost every time unless theres a mage or warlock gets old.
Druids are great in AB and AV. In AB theyre great at delaying a cap solo for a long time so reinforcements can show up. In AV they can either be great healers or front liners or back cappers
I understand that but doesnt change the fact that its a consume that follows a rule which counters your point that says
You counter your argument here
Correct doesnt mean that things shouldnt change that either werent intended or are abused. Kinda like when people were multiboxing in bgs but they removed the ability to use /follow in a bg to help stop against afkers and bots.
So bringing up a different game with the same game mode (CTF) is irrelevant because its not “this game”
But bringing up situations where the devs implemented something in the original game that was then abused later on and they realized this was an oversight and the same logic could be applied here is “a strawman argument”
Pick a lane