Lets face it the only way this is going to be “solved” is if they make a seperate casual server with different systems in place that make it easier to get gear in a way it wont diminish the hard work of hardcore players.
Also the term casual is so broad like the middle class. The term is too undefined and everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes it.
Except there aren’t an excess of these threads. Instead, there are an abundance of threads full of angsty people claiming to be casuals who are really angry about…something.
The formula for wow has been exactly the same since inception.
Form or join a group, do content; receive rewards appropriate to the level of content you did.
This has never been a mystery. I really enjoy the fact that wow has moved back toward a player needing groups regularly instead of the ghost town single player experience it had become.
I pug a lot of my m+ runs. It takes a while to get groups, but I get in there and get them done. My guild raids each week. While we haven’t cleared M Nathria, we do get a lot done and I have a great time.
It only takes a minimum of effort to find a group and/or community to play with. If you don’t have that effort in you, MMOs might be the wrong genre for you?
easily get rid of elites.Casual outnumber them a million to one. 
Only half. The other half won’t be happy if there is any way to get past 200 without an organized guild of 20.
Satisfying both groups at once is left as an exercise for the reader Blizzard developers. (But why don’t they listen to players!?!)
Casual is defined a lot of different ways, but if you mean people with less than 20 hours a week to play and not part of a CE guild, they can absolutely still pug +5s and +10s if they pay attention to mechanics and affixes. DPS only players might have to resort to pushing their own key even if it’s not the easiest dungeon, but they can still do it.
Therefore, casuals can benefit from the upcoming valor system as well as trying to progress toward AotC (either in pugs, or in guilds with other casuals).
It’s kinda wild how many people on these forums imply or outright state that you cannot be casual and good at this game at the same time.
Like apparently casuals are incapable of doing rated PvP, M+ or Raids because
in their minds they just aren’t good enough and thus need 220’s from random dungeons to be competitive.
I think Blizzard likes the idea of people attacking others. Keeps people distracted. They have never stepped in to clarify why they do things. I think with some transparency on Blizzard’s side it would settle a lot of issues that people fight about.
Every time something comes up the player base draws this line of them and us. Then fight about it endlessly even though neither side had anything to do with it. But it’s SOMEONE’S fault! I see it as Blizzard’s fault, they made the game and fail to communicate the whys.
The other thing that brings up a lot of arguments is worrying about what other people are getting. OMG mythic plus people are getting raid gear! OMG casuals are getting gear they don’t deserve! OMG this guy has that for doing nothing! OMG she got this for doing that! If people put the energy into suggestions for improving their own game play instead of destroying the way everyone else plays the game, it might improve for everyone.
Normal dungeons and LFR should be removed, then add M0 and normal raid to the group finder. Trim out some of these difficulties that contribute nothing. What people want seems to be the convenience more than anything.
The whole point of progression, is that you are getting stronger than others who haven’t put in as much effort/time. Progression becomes pretty meaningless if the lowest common denominator is getting just as much progression.
If I was pushing progression I wouldn’t worry about what other people might be getting from mythic plus, I’d be worrying about what I could be getting. I would be holding myself to the progression game style, not the entire population of the game.
Everyone should have access to the same level of gear, but the effort to get that gear should also be consistent. If they have solo content to get the gear then it should be balanced to take longer or be difficult, just like it takes effort to create and manage a guild to tackle higher-end content.
Terrible idea tbh.
People seem to have the idea that because M0’s are easy when you bumrush them with full Covenant gear, that they’re easy enough to put in the group finder.
But the group finder needs to be designed in such a way that a group completely screwing everything up at the absolute minimum gear level can still beat the content. And M0 and ESPECIALLY not Normal Raiding, as easy as they are, do not fit that category.
If you’ve ever read Dark Legacy Comics, there’s a character in there called Donald who is a stereotype of every dumb player mashed into one. But he exists. And he expects to beat content that he queues for consistently, even if he has to get 10 stacks of determination to do so.
IMO they have no obligation to detail out every decision. They put out the product, it’s this way because they wanted it to be. We give feedback, they can change or not but ultimately the answer is this is what we’re offering to players.
If both had the right ilevel requirement I think it’d be fine. Really determination is the hardest thing to adjust for.
Shoot I think I know this guy IRL
Everyone knows a Donald.
If you don’t know a Donald, you are the Donald.
This is another issue. When people queue into these at the minimum requirement, they expect the gear to be a solid upgrade, which means you’re handicapped at what you can put the highest ilvl.
Which would probably be around 171 for M0 and ~187ish for Normal Raids.
Can you say with confidence that Normal Nathria is beatable with a completely random group of players with the only metric for entry being 187ilvl and being the appropriate role?
I would not.
Way to be selfish … again. You do realize there are plenty of people that are terrible at the game right? Is it your goal to make the whole game hell for them? Whether it be a handicap, or a soccer mom clicker. Players need options, not push them out of the game.
Not every decision to be sure, that would take up too much time. Just the big ones. So when someone comes in saying this or that should be removed. A link could be posted stating why Blizzard allows whatever to continue.
Big ones would be looking for group, looking for raid, and how the gear scaling was decided. Blizzard is going to added valor for mythic plus players and people blew up. I just shrugged and thought, “good for them they can upgrade things they get, so they can continue to strive for something.” They enjoy mythic plus now it has some replayability.
C’mon you know you’d like to try it!
I’m not particularly good at the game myself but there’s also not much difference in the mechanics of those two. It’s usually one change.
I barely survived the era of Nazgrim, Durumu, Lei Shen and Garalon LFR.
I don’t think I could handle Normal Denathrius or Sludgefist in a LFR environment.
Be right there, what’s your preference?