Just gathering my thoughts some, but outside of reducing the total number of types of CC, is part of the reason CC is so prevalent now because of the nerfs to interrupt duration, as well as the introduction of Precog?
Just having a little debate in my head about Wind Shear and some of the other interrupts that have been nerfed. Wind Shear? 2s lockout. Almost doesn’t feel worth it. Reward? You prevent a spell from being casted again for a whole 2s. Risk? You give the target 4s of CC/Kick immunity. “Well, just kick better.” Yes, yes. That is always the goal, but good casters can still juke you. It’s odd to me that for 2s of interrupt on only one school is being weighed against 4s of CC and interrupt immunity.
Just did a match that was about 2:20s long vs fire mage + destro + r.sham.
10 Fears
6 Sheeps
2 Hex
6 Coils (3 casts)
2 Shadowfury
3 Dragon’s Breath
3 Ring of Frost (2 casts)
That’s ignoring blast wave, nova, roots, etc. I ended the match with 4 interrupts. The other dps had 0. To put it lightly, I feel like I’m barely playing the game.
So what is the best approach? Revert some interrupts for some specs? Or do we just start removing CC? That locks, destro in this case, have so many ways to setup their fear now is rather… dumb. Coil > Fear. Infernal > Fear. Shadowfury > Fear.
Mage lock have the best cc in the game together but you can’t nerf cc just because of 1 comp, imagine somebody playing war/lock or dh/lock rogue/lock etc… It’s hard to pull cc because you’ll be the only one to cast spell.
They never should have nerf cc but instead remove micro cc and remove thing like havoc dh having access to tank dh cc and tools, same for dk blind/silence rogue gouge etc…
Kick duration was fine in sl has there was no billion cc like atm.
I should also add, it feels like there is a whole game now being built around fishing for precog. The end goal isn’t even to cast, but to juke. Sure, it’s on the dps if they fail to kick properly, but it’s just… bait.
NOT that this strategy shouldn’t be used or it’s bad or anything, but I think it just makes for a really unfun gaming experience. I’m sure I could type this up a bit better, but I think it really ruins what casting is about and the reward of getting a cast off. Juking someone IS the reward. Now you’re getting a reward on top of the reward? Seems off.
Plenty of debate around what micro CC is, but don’t disagree. I think micro CC just points to the fact there is TOO much CC and we end up having lots of DR’ed CC to deal with.
I see lots of melee use every instant CC they have first before even trying to make an interrupt.
Some specs need to have their CC toned down, locks being the main one.
like many have said, micro cc is abundant as frick to the point where imo precog is a necessity. Every melee has multiple stops for important casts, like you juke a warrior and try to torrent/msi/double bolt/whatever impactful cast and then he just shockwaves you, and or bolts etc.
i kick air, you get spell
bias note from a bad: precog is super satisfying to proc :3
Actually a buff considering how kick is 3s or cs is 5 now. Shaman always almost iconically had a short interrupt. Short cd but short lockout. now they’re almost on par with previously one of the longest lockouts. (rogue was 6s)
Kind like how the cc changes was a buff to gouge as it’s nearly as long as sap. & highlights just how absurd and poorly thought out the changes are in general.
Yeah it’s kinda nuts when you spell it out.
Genuinely they’ve been going in the wrong direction with CC ever since they introduced the new trinket styles between Adapt, w/e the cc duration reduction but no trinket was called, & normal medallion. Snowballed from there to here.
Precog is like the inversion of counterspell having blanket silence attached to it. Where you got faked and were still unable to cast for 4 seconds. Although even that was better for the game as the silence could be immuned or dispelled.
IDK if this would help or hurt, but given how they’ve put so many training wheels on playing a caster they could reduce the cooldown on melee interrupts again or soemthing. Kick used to be short, like 9s or something. I think pummel was shorter too.
There were glyphs that could come back as built in passives, reduce the CD of your interrupt if the kick lands. Increase the CD if you get juked. idk
I’m dumb i thought you meant cheapshot. Thanks for that correction.
Is mage 5s? Good. I assumed they would’ve nerfed it since they nerfed rogue. lol. Long lockouts are good for the game. Looks like warlocks too. So casters can stop casters but melee are just out of luck.
It seems Kind of silly? Pummel, Kick, Mind Freeze, whatever else if there’s an exception i’d love to know. All 3s.
I think this is fair lol. It’s always been satisfying to juke, but now there’s even more tangible reward. it even has an animation.
As caster I don’t like precog but I think it’s needed atm too, like said above most people throw every cc/micro cc they got even triple Dr before using kick.
And even precog is good at low cr but once you climb people either don’t kick or use it not often so you basically cc yourself by trying to juke.
Resources need to be a thing again. You can’t throw gouges 24/7 if they cost 45% of your energy and it’s not coming back for another 10 or whatever seconds. The game needs some sticks thrown in the wheels really badly.
Classes have plenty of complexity but not enough faults. Like we’re not full auto but we can’t jam. Our action always moves.
I think it would be toxic to get cdr kick, it’s already painful to go through 3kicks and stuff like ground/reflect and all the cc.
Definitely cdr mechanic should be completely not working in pvp imo, mage being probably the most toxic caster cause of it and sub for melee, we tried it’s not working.
we tried precog as well all expansion, and it’s not working. it really isn’t.
the lads had to come up with kick bots and scripts, it’s that bad
you wonder why pvp is dying? because the skill gap has widened, and mechanics like precog help the really good players.
the not so good ones have quit, the bad ones are all on MM hunters slinging snipershots from 50 yards away
there will always be room for skill expression. right now, there’s so much that semicasuals don’t even bother, they know they don’t have a chance against the turbosweats so they don’t even try
Definitely agree the skill cap has greatly being reduced, major stuff I recognize as a rps player is they added so many immune mechanic and stuff usable in stun/cc so you dont need to trinket even if you did a mistakes it’s so hard to punish people.
For precog définitely it’s not a permanent fix but more and bandaid has if you remove it with the current design caster would be legit unplayable.
Problem is they won’t revert the game design because of m+ and as venruki explained a long time ago, blizzard do 't want classes and specs to be different in pve/pvp.
interrupts and CC in general used to last longer. fewer CCs yes, but the chains themselves could be longer. consider only blind sap at a cool 16 seconds, nevermind subsequent stuns/fears/polys
technically overall time spent in CC has gone down, but now there are more sources of it, and because of that, many classes have multiple stops now. and instant stops at that.
plus, because of DRs, it looks like micro CC (though that is something separate, and way too common)
I got ton of example before precog era, you got every kind of cc even in Dr throw to you and even stuff like incap/cage rop so you can’t get a cast off.
Trust me interrupt isn’t the only problem, and it was before they overloaded toolkit with multiple knocks with no Dr and every type of different cc with multiple Dr, when you are the only caster in your team and you face dh/dk or stuff like ele it’s really cancer to play if you don’t have instant.