We’re running ret/ww/pres and hovering between 2-2.1k.
Double melee we do well against, caster melee we do decently.
But double caster seems to be our absolute kryptonite. Boomy/ele boomy/aff destro/x especially it seems.
It feels like we have to go boomy or lock (if no boomy) to stop clones but then we’ve just got some caster pveing us down, plus chasing a Druid with usually an rsham throwing us around sucks.
Had some luck/success last night with timely healer swaps.
So basically - any advice, suggestions, etc for dealing with caster cleaves as ret/ww/pres? Some feel absolutely unwinnable.
Any PvP talent suggestions for ret also? I swap to judge dispel against boomy (no aff) to reduce their damage a bit. Spellwarding sometimes but that seems like just 1 save.
We’re just trying to get over the 2.1 hump before season 4.
Ret/WW probably has a harder time than other melee cleaves, but I remember playing frost/demo/rsham against dh/dk/casterweaver and even though we won, it went into dampen because they would just hide pillar until their goes and cross CC really well. The DK, especially, used his strang and stun as efficiently as he could. I actually believe they would’ve won had the DH played better but you could tell it was an alt that still had kinks.
I’d imagine ret/ww is similar albeit probably more difficult
We went against demo/bm “good luck seeing anything on your screen” cleave last night. We won but oh god the clutter.
We probably could pillar more. Just feels like against double caster (especially aff and boomy) that we’re just waiting to lose. Thinking about just tunneling healers more instead of going a dps.
I’ve gotten better at baiting grounding or phase shift, but definitely lost a game where I hoj into grounding like 5 minutes in.
Think I’ll record tonight’s games to rewatch / get advice on.
Definitely. Into melee cleaves it works bc I swap to a massive verse set and we just tank their damage rotating cds while jd parses 150k+ dps into two targets.
Btw, what do you think of mage/ww? I’m thinking of swapping mage next week (arcane preferably but frost too).
Ye pillaring against aff/boomy is rough id imagine you probably play more aggressively and sit aff most of the game but I could be wrong
Mage/WW is really good atm iirc. Frost or arcane should work fine. Frost’s floor is lower than Arcane but Arcane’s ceiling is higher. You basically play like mage/rogue
That’s really it. Play when you have a means to connect to the target. Run when you can’t. Force them to push in and make connecting easier, as well as drawing out the healer so you can potentially setup.
I would only swap heals if they are being aggressive OR you were making hard swaps to druids when they didn’t have hots. Like Paralysis to connect then HoJ, than swap off.
You have a really good comp for hiding to get cds back and then going out to burst someone in a stun with cross cc preventing peels from their team. Most healers will die in a few of those if you split up crusade and serenity, especially if you set it up out of bubble or spell bop
As boomy when ret ww freedoms off the pillar and holds incap for my clone cast bar it’s very hard to do anything
Yea, I would think of yourselves as game managers. More than trying to win on your go, you’re trying to prevent the other team from doing what they want. I get that sounds a bit loaded, but it means you’re trading CDs to match their actions. I would try to mitigate damage as much as possible and draw out the game as long as you can since you’re going to be substantially stronger in deep dampening. So you’re hitting what’s close and maximizing uptime, not pushing into deep, disrupting the other teams go, mitigating/preventing damage with kicks and CC, being mindful of your healers positioning, etc.
Like you could save your damage/offensives to match the other team and try and force them to pull back on their go. Stuff like that.
Against double caster, it seems we struggle to identify the kill target. Any advice on what we should be looking for to identify that? Some of these guys spread perfect range apart and its difficult to stick on any specific target. Then when we swap, defensives get used and it feels like we aren’t making any impact.
Obv we need to pillar more to lure these guys closer in but didn’t know if there were things to look for to help identify kill targets in these double ranged comps.
Also big thanks to everyone giving their input so far.
Closest wizard is a big one, don’t let yourself be pulled into awful positions for free.
If they’re dragging you to Africa and you don’t really have anything offensively, zeroing in on a single target probably won’t help. Swapping to someone closer to your safe zone, or just pulling back to pillar entirely is better than training into your own oblivion.
Edit: also sometimes some healers position very poorly. If their whomever wants to walk right into your melee cleave, sometimes it’s very good to just swap them and bully as they’re trying to cross to cc your healer.