you only have 15% vers? or is that a pve set?
Life and Death seems is kinda bad as a pvp talent for unholy
80% amz is essentially mandatory against rets unless ur memeing
LIke mentioned above, effective CD trades are excellent.
As Frost you can also counter pressure which I also have had success with. Pulling a teammate of theirs into a chill streak go will force them to play defensive since they themslevs will also risk getting killed quickly if they do not.
Exactly this.
Rets are pretty easy to counter as a FDK imo. Obviously this opinion is coming from a 2s & 3s perspective, not a 1v1. Just have to be quick on your AMZ timing.
Just noticed you are Unholy. Unholy is a little foreign to me as I despise pet based specs/classes so I canât help you on your burst against a ret other than UDKâs are garbage tier in PvP atm. Also, youâll need a lot more vers than you currently have.
As an example, here is my 205 Ret @ 24% vers. You can absolutely tell the difference.
I play unholy for PVE so what you see is my pve set, my PvP set is 23-24 Verse and I have gotten to 1400 in 2s so far. Trying to push farther, goal is 1800 for this season if possible.
Gotchya!
hitting 1800 in 2s is do-able. Just get yourself a great healer. My biggest road-block in 2s are casters. Otherwise the climb ainât bad.
Yea its definitely do-able, my biggest roadblock is RET pallys, I havenât had that many issues with casters besides boomkin (just need to get them in a stun before bear form). Rogues are tricky, some of them are really good and can get me in stun lock. So far having an Hpal as a healer seems to work best.
I win most of my games against Rets as Frost mainly because their burst window is fairly predictable in all ratings. Regardless, I still need the PvP talent Dome of the Ancient Shadows and Death Pact over Wraith Walk to come out on top though. Itâs funny because I struggle against Arms and WW more.
My typical fight with a Ret goes as:
- They almost always start off with a HoJ so I pre-emptively or very quickly use Icebound Fortitude/AMZ. Usually when they are bursting, their wings are up and I HAVE to make sure my AMZ is as well. If not itâs most likely GG. Iâm Necrolord so I use Fleshcraft while inside AMZ to negate a bit more damage. I roll with the Reinforced Shell and Hardened Bones endurance conduits and they also help massively. The 80% magic reduction from AMZ is massive as Rets burst do Holy damage which is considered magic damage. Remember - a 20k Templarâs Verdict goes down to a measly 4k Templarâs Verdict in AMZ
. - Once Wings is down I go big and try to force Divine Shield - which almost all of the time I am successful. During the weird intermission of Divine Shield, I create some distance so they canât free hit me, but not too much where the Ret is out of grip range once Divine Shield is down. I keep up the pressure if they use Blessing of Protection because BoP only ignores physical damage and all of my abilities are Frost damage (only Killing Machine Obliterates are frost damage, not normal Obliterates).
- If they try to Blessing of Freedom, Iâll purge it with Arcane Torrent and keep them slowed with Chains of Ice while I Deathâs Advance to gain or create distance. Sometimes I also do this if I am losing the trade in order to buy time for my CDs or kite out their CDs.
- Speaking of our sub-par survivability, it usually goes something like:
- Death Strikes spaced out every 4-6 seconds
- Raise Dead+Sac Pet
- Lichborne+Death Coil
- Death Pact (LAST)
- Every time I play this correctly I always win if Iâve already forced their Divine Shield before I use Death Pact. They never suspect Death Pactâs healing and hopefully by the time youâve used Death Pact, Raise Dead+Sac Pet/AMS is or almost is back up again.
As for playing against a Ret as Unholy⊠Iâm not too familiar with it, but I have a friend who mains UH and he usually runs Necrotic Aura/Cadaverous Pallor, Dome of the Ancient Shadow, Necrotic Strike, and Spell Eater with success against magic damage comps.
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Blinding sleet when they pop their wings (most paladins pop wings when the fight first starts). Theyâll usually trinket the blinding sleet. Make sure you chains of ice after trinket and kite. If itâs 1v1 Iâll use FWF to stun them, if more ill grib then FWF into chill streak. Sometimes theyâll blow bubble because of wings but good paladins will save it. If they bubble just keep kiting until it expires. Pop AMS/AMZ if you cant escape their damage. After bubble and wings is down pop dps cds, self heals as required and try to beat the paladin in a dps race. Thatâs how I 1v1d a decently geared paladin in a skirmish the other day. He was pretty predictable and Iâm a sure a good ret paladin will still win in an even match.
wings lasts for like 40 years though. amz is 10 seconds and ams is like 6.
It is not wings thatâs the scary part or the part that one shots.
Itâs Wings + Seraphim (15 secs) + Divine Toll (10 seconds) that primes the 1 shot. A rets goal is to get their big burst out within that 10-15 second window. Utilizing what Iâll list below is what makes the â1 shotâ.
Divine Toll (especially if it procs), into a Final Reckoning (if talented into it), into a TV, into a Wake of Ashes, into a TV. Any one of these abilities has the potential to do a huge chunk of your health bar during Wings+Seraphim+DT. If you donât wall it, it will 1 shot you.
Good news! You can AMZ the entire go.
okay suppose iâll look for that, other than wings what is it iâm looking for on the paladin itself which makes this obvious when theyâre about to go for it (in terms of visuals/animations)
They have two goâs. Wings+seraphim+DT then seraphim+DT.
When wings are down, keep an eye out for their next seraphim pop.
They rotate these two goâs. Thatâs about it outside of their healing.
I asked for animations to look out for, i donât know what paladinâs stuff actually looks like other than crown and wings.
I donât track these things by animations. I use a mix of addons like weakaura & such.
However, Seraphim gives you a glowy crown & hammer.
I really need to get some more add-onsâŠ
If Mcconnell is a raid bossâŠ
Kite them and chains of ice and force their bubbles lol, km also goes thru bop soooo
Hey thanks a bunch for the details, I pretty much tried out everything you suggested and it helps ALOT. No more one shots which is great! There was one game I played today where I was able to survive two burst windows by rotating AMS and AMZ. We still lost the match because I wasnât able take down the Pally due to his mobility and the Shadow priest healing.
I decided to not go with Death Pact because it doesnât seem to do much below 50% hp. The Wraith walk helps me get away in tight situations and also helps me catch up with certain classes that have strong mobility.
I do like Asphyxiate, it helps me with setting up for the take down and for peels. I do see most high rated FDKs running with Blinding Sleet. Is there a reason to this?
Glad to hear itâs working for ya! Wraith Walk and Death Pact are very interchangeable, I tend to run with Death Pact most of the times unless Iâm going against root heavy comps such as Druids/Shamans.
As for Asphyxiate vs Blinding Sleet - it really depends. Our kit is slightly favored against melee comps due to the Blinding Sleet+Chillstreak combo. I find that I have a bit more success using Blinding Sleet against melee comps and Asphyxiate against mobile caster comps such as Afflocks/Boomkin/Mages. I use WeakAuras and GladiatorlosSA2 to let me know when a Boomkin would use Incarnation or a Mage might pop Combustion so that I can follow with Asphyxiate on them. Imagine getting CCâd while your Pillar of Frost is up, yeah that crap feeling is the same for them. The potential damage from a Blinding Sleet+Chillstreak often outweighs the use of Asphyxiate though because our kit is (unfortunately) very reliant on this one PvP talent hence why you see higher FDKs using Blinding Sleet over Asphyxiate.
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