Small changes here and there isn’t the same as redefining the PVP ranking experience.
We waited for Classic and wanted it wholeheartedly, good with the bad. I think you had different expectations.
If we were going to get the classic experience then why did we get 1.12 and all this newer more powerful classes and gear, like the pvp sets we have now that are way more powerful than the originals, and why do we have cross server pvp before naxxramas? These are all changes that soil the experience with no regard to how they could change the game, and they do change the game greatly. A consequence of that is the need to correct for those changes and implement a match making system of some sort even if its very minor to save the integrity of the game. In original vanilla wow the bulk of the pvp experience there was against people on your own server, not some random other servers with vs a bunch of nameless players you will never see again. All these changes, tarnish the experience making it less the game we played in vanilla and only a 1.12 worst of experience for the pvp.
Blizzard telling people we are getting cross server pvp also got people thinking that it would be fine to all pick horde for pvp, because according to the attitude on the forums cross server pvp would fix it, and I bought into it also, and turns out it doesn’t fix it. So how do we come back from that? We cant just force people to balance the servers and take away cross server PVP, because we are stuck, the community part of the servers is important, so what can we do? Our options are very limited because blizzard painted us into a corner with no period correct solution to the problem that is not massively disruptive. The only rational solution is a light duty match making system, that keeps things more fun and more fair, it does not need to match for ranks and skill level, but it should at least attempt to match premade vs premade and pug vs pug.
I am willing to wait longer for a pug vs pug, and I betcha the horde are too.
We were told the build we were launching with during the announcement.
You mean the ones that basically killed the BG it targetted, and pushed premades to the other two BGs which made Horde complain about WSG/AB premades too? Is that the goal here, to just remove alliance participation entirely?
Does seriously nobody remember what happened the last time Blizz and Horde took up the crusade against premades?
Because I do- and it didn’t do any of the things people said it would. It didn’t increase pug win rates for Alliance (it brought them basically to zero), it didn’t increase game quality ( I get that to Horde ez honour isa good thing, but if the tables were flipped and you were ending every hour long match with zero honour you’d hate it too), it didn’t cause good players to start mingling with the afkers and pugs.
Both potential solutions will kill pvp.
Solution 1- We split pugs and premades queues. Well, premades are going to keep premading, so again you don’t have skilled players mingling. We already know the story of pugs versus pugs, we’ve seen it in AV.
So either A- Horde are right, and Alliance lose 100% of the time in pvp because they suck, are lazy, afk, etc… In that case, Alliance pugs lose 100% of the time to Horde pugs in WSG/AB too because if it’s not the map, that’s the only logical conclusion. PuGs stop queuing for Alliance, it slowly dies just like AV, and now Horde pugs are waiting 2 hours in every BG queue to face one sided stomps in every BG.
Is that really fun? Is that really the pvp experience you want, auto wins and spending most of your time in queues?
Or B) Alliance are right, and the only reason they lose so much in pug v pug in AV is because of the map, and they don’t have a 100% lose rate in WSG/AB because they’re more balanced. But since it’s Horde demanding this premade/pug split change, we’re going to go with the horde reality and option one.
Which means dead BGs… at least, dead pug BGs. If you want to pvp, you’ll need to join a premade cuz otherwise you’re sitting in queues endlessly.
Or, Solution 2. Premades get the AV treatment and are just broken. Well, knowing a lot of premaders- if they have to pug in every BG, which means carrying leeches, they will stop. To many, premades is enjoyable, and if they can’t premade they don’t have fun. To most, queueing with a bunch of AFKers, and randomly ending up with no healers and players that haven’t bother gearing or getting an epic mount is no fun.
They’ll just stop playing.
Either way- Alliance pugs are vastly outnumbered by Horde pugs, you make a pug only WSG/AB queue and the queue times are going to rocket up.
they have changed the build numerous times to correct for unintended consequences of using that build. They have added a retail wow feature wargames, and no one is crying over it, its actually really cool that it got added and takes nothing away from classic wow.
If there was an exploit that existed in vanilla 1.12 that would crash the server when abused, wouldn’t that be something we should fix? This is no different, it should be lightly corrected to help the experience be as close to the original as possible. Blizzard changed the game by using 1.12 straight away like that, they changed the game by a whole bunch of things like making big server populations, a mega single battlegroup, and numerous other changes to correct for unintended consequences of other changes.
Its too late for nochanges, that ballpark ride came and went a while back with the first change.
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They forgot to remove it, there’s a difference.
But its here, and they are leaving it in game intentionally.
Do you find this to be of the same degree as reinventing how Classic PVP works?
If they implemented a Wargame for solo queuers only, I wouldn’t bat an eye. It would increase queue times but it’s a player’s choice.
If you want a casual pick up game for fun, be prepared to give up any rewards.
I see what you’re saying. QoL changes here and there may (and have) happen, as long as the overall core of the system remains intact, and I can agree with that.
My only real issue as I said initially is the idea that the system is more driven by honor gains rather than actual PvP occuring, but that may just be how it goes for now now, and is a testament why it twas scrapped in TBC.
When the core of the system is not driven by actual PvP interaction, at least not in a real competitive sense, it’s going to be hard to force everyone to go for that aspect when there’s no real tangible reward system in place to actually reward that playing mentality.
If any of that makes any sense.
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Cross server pvp reinvented how the pvp works, it was not a feature for most of vanilla. the updated gear and classes are too advanced for this state of the game experience. All these are massive departure from the original game. Pug vs premade at this frequency is unacceptable and its enabled by the departure of original vanilla because they used 1.12 and cross server from the start. Its just a bad case of unintended consequences.
The only players who want Premade vs Pug are bad premades that want to club seals.
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A minor modification to the matching system would hardly reinvent how classic pvp works.
Oh lordy no… premades wouldn’t be able to roll pugs for free honor and would have to put in at least the same effort as pugs… the world would end…
At the end of the day, man…
idk.
I think everyone can agree that we all just want to enjoy playing the game. There’s a balance to strike somewhere between incentive and fair gameplay; and it’s just a really hard line to hit right.
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The sad part is I don’t even care about the armor I just like playing the battlegrounds. It’s like a 1 in 20 chance to get a match vs another pug. Most of the time you get shoved into your GY while some person named Fyouiwin or the like gatling guns you down with their stack of warriors/mages/locks. Meanwhile your pug with 0 heals gets to sit in the GY until the HPH goes down enough to force them to retire. This whole thing is a case of blizzards selective adherence to the “No changes” rant. Why not make a premade I’m sure you ask. I refuse to contribute to this sweat laden idiocy. I hope things get better, but probably not until after AQ and into naxx when all the thirsty PVE trash that thinks they are on par with APES moves out.
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It’s an old system, dude. Work with it or move on.
It’s an old system, yes.
But it was modified by Classic server sizes, and the game we have on the other end feels very different from the original as a result.
The “old” system, is not the same.
I think you’re just afraid it might change your mind. 
I don’t think it’s safe to say that its only PvE players that are after that gear dude. There’s a lot of people after that gear and some people are just willing to work harder to get it. AQ isn’t going to save you from that people are still going to be after that gear until they release TBC
Blizz should just make R14 easily obtainable for everyone.
What a ridiculous claim. There is nothing nice about these groups. On each sever it’s a few dozen weirdos with all the time in the world to organize a bracket mafia and ruin PvP for everyone else. They don’t even like each other half the time, and they certainly are not nice to anyone outside their elite groups. These HPH maxing “communities“ are great for the small minority of players involved in them, not great the game. If the meta isn’t PvP-focused, the it’s not great for the game. It’s just great for the sweaties. Quit feeding people BS.
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The bracket people on my server are fine. I got included once i naturally started hitting the higher ranks. RP determined who got what. When I got rank 13 I got into bracket 1 and I got rank 14 3 weeks later. There is a lot of competition for bracket 1 on my server now so it’s a bit tougher but it’s not that bad. Most of the people are nice although many have quirks. I’m sure some servers are bad. Mine is fine.
As for the battlegrounds, I understand this has been said and suggested before and no one ever reacts well. However, I just did multiple WSG and AV games on my level 49. I would HIGHLY recommend this bracket to anyone who just wants this “good old fashioned PVP fun”. It was all PUGs from every server against PUGs from every server (although I’m sure premades exist). There weren’t too many twinks unlike I found in the 19s and 29s. If you want good PVP PUGs now get an alt to 49 (or possibly 39 and 59) and stay there.
Being included must feel really great.
shrug