If they had to ruin PvP on purpose to accomplish that I’d hardly suggest it was worth it.
Ruined the only worthwhile aspect of the game imo. 
I don’t think any of Classic has been ruined. I believe anyone who states such, doesn’t appreciate the second chance we’ve been given.
Retail has the care free games you are looking for.
It’s hard to appreciate a retail game which felt less authentic than a pserver…
Even despite numerous bugs.
WoW: Plastic.
My understanding of it, and sorry if this was mentioned before but it’s a long thread, isn’t so much that premades existing is in and of itself the problem, but rather the current mentality behind what premades are actually doing. I’m sure this isn’t true for all premades, but you do hear a lot about the ones who intentionally throw games against other premades just so they can end up against a pug they have a much greater chance of rolling over.
So in essence, premades aren’t the problem, it’s the overall goal of certain premades who essentially are putting honor gains over actual PvP. At that point there’s nothing really competitive about it, it just becomes “what is the most efficient means to the end?”, and I don’t think that mentality is very healthy for the overall game. A lot of people are no longer PvPing because it’s PvP, they’re PvPing with the goal of gaming the system as much in their favor as possible.
At that point, is it really even PvP anymore? I think “Player vs. Honor” is a more apt way to put it for how things are in Classic.
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We knew this returning to Classic as it’s an integral part of vanilla’s ranking system.
This is what Blizzard warned players of when they stated that we wanted it but don’t.
Thank you.
Finally somebody who understands the effect that increased server sizes has had on my game. lol
It has nothing to do with server size.
It has everything to do with server size, man.
Raiders are farming battlegrounds for gear.
There, I said it.
And what does that have to do with server size? Do smaller servers not have raiders?
I would argue that it’s players wanting the best gear, it’s not necessarily players who focus on raiding.
Smaller servers don’t have ladder caps that allow for 15+ helmets at one time; so people don’t spend 8+ hours a day in premades, because they can’t all rank at once.
Right, because there’s less of a demand. That doesn’t mean that smaller realms don’t have players capitalising on honor gains.
If they can’t all fit, they’d pad more.
Oh certainly people still premaded but it was for fun or rep, and not for rank gear in most cases.
They’d walk in there in full T2 and that used to be pretty impressive.
So what do you propose? Get rid of ranking which was an integral part of vanilla?
I remember an ntegral part of vanilla’s ranking system was that only one player per faction per server could actually achieve R14 for that week. Servers actually had lists, some going back for months, where you essentially had to wait your turn, and if you did some extra PvP to skip your place in line, well let’s just say you probably didn’t want to do that for your own sake. That’s the meta I remember.
You’ve heard what I proposed… It’s in my OP.
shrug
We still have lists. If it wasn’t for padding, everyone’s current experiences would be exasperated.
TLDR; no changes. It’s a long thoughtful post but doesn’t have a place in Classic if it means redefining it.
Except classic has already seen multiple changes to BG’s in an attempt to prevent pug stomping.
At this point blizzard just needs to bite the bullet and make it a hard rule.
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Exactly, it really does need to happen. They made changes from day 1, may as well do this because it will improve the experience for every one, even the premade teams will have a better experience because it will always be against other premade teams. Truly they could even add in a rudimentary match making system that pits you vs other players of similar rank and gear level for a composite of the whole average of the team, attempting to get you close to that match making value. Match making is important, but for battlegrounds should be done in such a way that it does not harm the que times any more than they already are. for sure pugs should only fight pugs on the average and premade should only fight premade on the average, where maybe a pug is vs a premade, the premade would be of far lower rank than a real try hard group, maybe they are all new to the battle grounds and low ranks or something but this would be a rare thing we could hope because even a green premade is very strong.
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I just think it’s inherently closed minded to not even entertain any discussion on how something is flawed and could potentially be improved to promote a more healthy game environment for all just because “that’s how it is”.
The argument of no changes is flawed after you realize the people that argue for it are really only cherry picking what should and shouldn’t be different to fit into their own agendas. A bit off topic, but personally I see the fact that logs are being so widely utilized in Classic to be a bit hypocritical to the whole “no changes” idea, as that allows you to see in a comprehensive and mathematical format the flaws in your group that the systems in place at the time didn’t account for and weren’t designed around.
Basically, current game mentality and philosophy makes that entire argument completely moot in my eyes.