They are the majority bringing premade kill squads with their bags stuffed with consumes and rocking world buffs. It’s a natural conclusion that many of those people will play less if at all with that level of ferocity once the AQ and Naxx gear is available as it far exceeds the power level of R13 for the purposes of PVE and in some cases PVP. It also depends how they decide to do the end of classic progression. If they follow the vanilla patches exactly then R13-14 will become available to all near to the final patch. It will be interesting to see what they do with it. It’s not a big shock that they would match perfect comp premade against random players with no heals though. Look at Overwatch where you can get railed with people far beyond your skill level. The attitude has become “if they don’t quit don’t fix it” and that is a bummer to me.
SO much would be solved by removing cross realm bgs
Love the guild name my dude! xD
Anyone that is defending premades has either:
A) No skill and needs to premade in order to have any chance at winning.
B) Never had the “pleasure” of playing vs 10 premades in a row (very common, btw).
I pug alot of games and it does suck to be placed vs premades over and over. The premades that I do get into generally aren’t the best anyway, but if you don’t premade yourself you wont realize that the most skilled players are in premades. They don’t just beat pugs, because they are in a premade, the best premades stomp other premades as well easily. These are people who have been playing together for months, which is a big difference than a bunch of randos off of discord or trade chat throwing a premade together. The fact of the matter is that in a situation where people are using things like faps and rocket boots on cd the structure of the game is completely different and arguably requires more skill than pug vs pug games, where not every player will have the consumables anyway.
If this is true, why is pre v pre an issue?
Some teams require consumables as a prerequisite for invitation. It’s just another thing that they have control over which the pug doesn’t; it’s just another reason why pugs and premades shouldn’t face each-other.
That said, I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to suggest that one premade who beats a different premade because they had 4 players with sapper charges implicates that they were more skilled at the game.
To make that claim, you’re also imposing a “pay to win” structure to PvP gameplay. Consumables like bandages, food, hpots, and mpots augment the gameplay and give it some semblance of itemized depth – engineering gimmicks, invulnerability pots and faps are all just annoying imho, and distract from core class mechanics.
I think they overstep. Their use was far less wide-spread during vanilla.
The example of the tournament is a little off but this small error highlights what I see as the major failing of the complaint. The error being every player could choose to start with a barracks if they wanted to. The complaints are coming from the players who lost because they chose not to have one.
The advantage premades enjoy is exclusively the result of their extra investments into preparing for PvP and is something everyone could do. Yes, you may have prioritized other activities in your life over classic PvP but that’s the opportunity cost which comes with decisions about what you want to focus your attention on.
Frankly, especially since we’re talking about BG’s and not wPvP, I think the correct response here is honestly to go play retail. Classic PvP has no feature which makes it superior to retail PvP. Better gear is harder to get, the reputation grind is less refined, class balance philosophy was different when classic was designed, some maps probably favor one faction over the other etc.
In other words, the only people who should be complaining are those who want to be competitive PvP’ers specifically in classic WoW which means having an excellent will/loss ratio. Of course, those people are probably part of a premade PvP group which spends the additional time preparing for PvP and enjoys the ROI which comes from that investment.
This is a straw-man argument, man.
In a theoretical vacuum? Yes, every player can make that choice; but in practice?
Not every player has access to a premade group, man; and not every player can gain access to one either. Not every player wants to take part in a premade group, and it isn’t fair to those players to suggest that premade groups are mandatory for success in a game variant where matchmaking is, and always has been, available.
What I am saying is that a premade beating another premade is more likely to be indicative of player skill than a pug game, because in a pug game you can pug one rank 12 druid who pops faps and wins the entire game for your team, whereas premade vs premade most people are prepared to deal with such a thing through hunter traps/dispells etc.
A solid runner counts for very little absent support.
Faps can be dispelled, and if the vast majority of an enemy team is sitting in midfield, even a rank 12 druid is going to have difficulty gaining access to their own base while carrying the flag in most cases.
If his pugged teammates are able to provide him with support at midfield, his chances of success are significantly increased, and him and his team are far more likely to achieve victory – which would be the mark of players who are skilled at the game, even if they didn’t queue together, Sindarion.
The only real way to address it at this point is through a boycott - which will never happen.
First of all awesome post.
I initially joined classic for the PvP because I like the way the classes play much better than retail (for the most part) and I really like how much better the macro system is in classic.
HOWEVER, I am now doing nothing but raid logging because of how horrendous the PvP experience is. You get in a premade and stomp pugs all day OR you are the pug getting stomped. There’s no middle ground, no competition.
Even in premades NONE of the good players PvP to rank 14. Its only sh!tlords trying to ruin someone elses day so to win you have to play with literally the worst kind of people (who aren’t even good players to boot).
To compound this even further, everyone wants to pop 50g worth of faps and lips every game so even on the rare case where you get a good fight its decided by who RMT’d the most gold.
Not fun.
Ironically, the best fix we had for the PvP experience was Alliance AV premades (not saying it’s ideal) because it made AV the best HpH for alliance, so all the premades were there leaving WSG (and now AB) to be much more enjoyable. Also given the imbalance of racials, map, and horde having more active high rankers (because of a slower grind) the Alliance premades were actually balanced and would’ve eventually encouraged more PvPers to switch alliance (which would REALLY help the PvP experience overall).
But lets be TOTALLY honest. If you’re horde, complaining about PvP, you are the problem. Faction imbalance is the root of why the experience is so bad and you should be having a much worse experience than you are given how blatant your advantages are.
At this point I’m just hoping they release BC with faction specific queues (or put faction specific queues on classic) because that’s the only thing that will fix PvP in either iteration of the game. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a matchmaking system, but Actard only makes changes that affect their bottom-line, they aren’t concerned in the slightest with the health of this game.
Yes faps can be dispelled, do u not understand that in a pug game u are not guaranteed to get a priest or a shaman? Whereas in a premade u are? Winning a pug vs pug game is very dependent on rng.
Oh hush, none of the premades are in it for competition. I’ve played with rankers enough to know that most of you who are rank 12 plus are complete scumbags and if you’re stomping other premades its probably because you pop 50g (that you RMT’d) worth of consumes a piece every game.
All I am saying is that having played lots of pug games and lots of premade games, is that imo the most skilled players are in premades.
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That was like, the point of my 20 page OP.
It is and it isn’t.
No, you’re not guaranteed a win at any time, you have to fight for it every single match with whatever teammates you happen across. When you lose, which you will on occasion, that was just the luck of the draw and the way things turned out.
There’s nothing to be mad at, you played your part and participated, you tried your best, and you receive credit for that. That’s Vanilla PvP.
You do what you can how you can and sometimes it doesn’t work out. That’s part of the game. If you’re an exceptional player, you’re always an asset to your team, and your chances to win a game will reflect that.
That’s pug life.
You don’t need 9-14 exceptional players to carry you; you’re prepared to pull your own weight; potentially even carry others if you want to win. That’s all part of it.
Your faction is your team. When you queue for the battleground you’re helping your team. You get rewarded with rank for doing that – not for helping yourself, and ignoring the other people on your team who needed your help.
Excellent post I just have to laugh at some of the responses that are against what this post wants to convey. It’s about competition and if you think a hand picked team made to maximize all of the best attributes to win a game going against a group of randomized people is fair competition, then you really are a bunch of crappy people. You are the same ones that think making a twink and beating up on under geared lower level players is ok but got mad when you were made to compete against people at your level…You guys are pathetic.
I mean… It should be self explanatory. The gameplay that’s taking place in battlegrounds isn’t authentic in reference to the original product; something should obviously be done to restore authenticity to it.
I don’t believe that it is not.