I swear to dedicate my life to making that the name history remembers him by
3 Likes
So.
Jungle and deserts. Do they exist? And there are cities and people, right?
Leave it to Blizzard’s writing team to make the obvious native american stand-ins justify an attack by the conveniently european humans.
And people still think its the liberals ruining stories with their personal politics…
17 Likes
This is the only right answer. Its far too late to fix the horde in the current timeline.
To think we went from a compelling story about monsters slowly finding redemption…to this.
I’m convinced the current WoW team just hates the world as presented in warcraft 3 and vanilla. That’s the only way I can rationalize their decisions over the past few years.
How is that different from now?
2 Likes
He said, with zero proof aside from his own confirmation bias.
Then just go away? You dont need to be here.
Because the narrative sucks. I dont give a damn about faction loyalty at the end of the day. The writing of both factions is just unsalvageable at this point.
Start over from vanilla, trash the chronicles lore and return to the world as presented in WC3 and vanilla. Evolve the world from there in a more consistent, nuanced way, slowly expanding things without retconning core aspects of the world with every other expansion.
I’m literally playing on a free private server as we speak that is doing exactly that, and it feels far more endearing and full of passion than anything these writers are doing.
6 Likes
I think the reason why people who don’t like the Horde doing things like Teldrassil yet don’t want a redemption story is that it means story focus on a hated narrative.
The Horde council solution might seen like a bandaid one, but it honestly belongs with how heavily lacking the actual reasons were for the majority of the Horde to support Sylvanas until an arbitrary point. And that is part of the issue.
What’s the redemption even supposed to mean in terms of changing the character of the Horde when it’s completely arbitrary that they had some insane bloodlust for the Alliance that is somehow not an actual, meaningful problem the other way around? What’s their now extreme hesitation to follow an evil leader supposed to mean when just vague “used and encouraged their hatred” answers were given in very throw away bits of dialogue?
Trying to explore these things can easily become just propping up a bad, destructive narrative.
18 Likes
You aren’t even playing the same game as us by your own admission. Maybe it’s you who should go away.
It’s true, the two hours of the Thrall panel last Blizzcon did as much damage to the Horde, Orc, and Tauren fantasy as the past ten years of narrative choices and failures.
3 Likes
You’re complaining about threads you dont like on a forum.
We’re criticizing the state of a game we pay for and grew up with.
Sit down.
6 Likes
You’re boasting about how you play on private servers and telling others that they should go away on the official forums. You’re a hypocrite.
1 Like
From the little I’ve seen on this forum, there’s a sense of horde players feeling slighted by lore. I must say that many alliance players feel the exact same thing of blue faction.
Added to gameplay factors such as faction imbalance, it is clear who is most harmed. But it’s a fruitless discussion that can only conclude that the game itself is flawed.
1 Like
Again gameplay forums are 
that way.
This is the story forum.
Where we discuss the story.
Go discuss how racial ability balance affects elite players and shapes the gameplay meta thereby elsewhere.
8 Likes
So why don’t you quote the part I said about lore and reply instead of hammering away at a subject that isn’t even the main focus of my comment? So you could aggregate instead of policing what others say. Do you get paid to do this or do you just have your free time for nothing?
1 Like
Because the clear implication in your comment is that the Alliance is more harmed because they have lore AND gameplay complaints. Whether or not that’s true is up for debate, and I don’t think anyone is claiming that the Alliance DOESN’T have legitimate lore concerns.
But to say that the Alliance’s lore is worse because… more people play Horde seems to be a slightly absurd argument on its face. You can make a case that more people play Horde because of the Alliance’s weak lore and, while that’s a point that I think a lot of people would vigorously debate you on, it’s at least within the general purview of things here.
That most raiding guilds are Horde or the relative strength of each faction’s racials is not really something that carries a lot of weight in these discussions. I’d suggest outlining your specific lore concerns so those can be discussed.
17 Likes
I mean we know a lot of top end PvP and PvE people pick horde because of superior racials
Literally I would be shocked if Limit’s Max could summarize the plot of the Shadowlands so far.
My favorite warlock theorycrafter cannot for the life of him remember the word Naaru. It’s just “the floating crystals from TBC”.
8 Likes
It probably has very little to do with the lore, but I will say that the Horde’s overwhelming gameplay dominance does have an effect on Alliance fans like myself who, like Horde fans, want to see their faction succeed.
The fact that if you want to see high level heroes beating up the big bad on Mythic mode on Youtube you’ll never find an Alliance raid unless you sift through dozens of videos of the encounter, or the fact that you’re far less likely to win any given battleground if you’re Alliance than if you’re Horde, does probably contribute to some extent in Alliance lore fans being predisposed to feel like losers constantly being denied catharsis.
Heck, it might contribute to the fact that there exists a minority of Alliance fans who want to see Horde players “punished” even to the detriment of the Alliance.
4 Likes
I would simply remove all racial abilities that are relevant in combat (PvE or PvP) and would change them all to be utility or just generally meaningless passive effects (1% crit! Faster mining! 0.5% damage reduction!) with cool names.
1 Like
At this point its a social issue. Horde dominates gameplay because that’s where the talent has ended up after several expansions of the Alliance slowly bleeding players. Neutralizing racials won’t fix it. I don’t think even making Alliance racials OP will fix it (although I can’t deny that I rolled my eyes when it turned out that Stoneform was really useful in Castle Nathria and Blizzard removed its utility in the beta in response.)
There are a bunch of potential solutions but I’m not sure this kind of problem has ever appeared in an MMO before. It certainly lends credence to the notion that if you’re going to have a faction system, 3 is better than 2.
4 Likes
I know it’s the nuclear option and it’d be Blizzard’s absolute last resort, but I’d just take down the faction barrier. My reasoning is that removing racials won’t amount to much because the top-end players have no reason to transfer back to the alliance right now. It goes against their own interests to reduce their own access to other talented players.
Last I heard, alliance racials are actually a smidge better in raiding, Shadowmeld is ace in m+, and supposedly mechagnomes are all-around good for casual raiders who’d do better than misusing active cooldowns. But nobody’s champing at the bit to go play them.
Taking down the divide would free up people to play what they want without losing their social connections.
8 Likes
Why three factions over two, though? Or how would you imagine that being done? Two extremes that can’t align, and a neutral that does?
I know ESO does three factions but I’ve never played the game myself, so I don’t know how they do it. Assuming you’re referencing that.