A few of them do. See #2, #10, and #13:
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Elune sending souls to the stars isnât death either. The Shadowlands isnât the Great Beyond.
Itâs not really that subjective, Horde leaders just arenât very compelling.
Thrall, the greatest of them is still being memed about after Cataclysm and as we encounter greater and greater threats the Horde just isnât as relevant.
There is a huge red glowing star in the sky, what if some threat comes from space again? What the heck is the Horde going to do without the Alliance raceâs help?
Make catapults that launch grunts into space? Come on be reasonable.
I already brought up the cataclysm issues with Thrall and Garrosh focus.
There was also the MoP ending where the expansion went downhill when we started to focus on the Horde again.
There was WoD with the focus on the old warchiefs.
And finally again with BfA and its Horde finding itself again narrative.
Every single disaster can be attributed to shifting the story to the Horde and its races.
Agreed, its just the Hordeâs story, it ultimately leads nowhere passed its moment in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah it sucks.
Just like it sucks for Night Elf fans being the universeâs punching bag but it is what it is. These writers canât do any better than this so its best that they focus on their strengths.
I donât think the game can handle yet another Horde focused story.
So they do.
Thanks for putting the time in identifying them but as we can see its not THAT bad.
Its not like every interaction Baine or Saurfang tell you how evil you are.
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The game shouldnât be doing this at all. Who wants to log on to shame and guilt, ever?
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Probably the same people who think losing all the time is a fun experience.
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I am only dispelling this idea that the Horde player is being so badly brutalized by NPCs constantly telling them how evil they are.
For good or bad Blizzard seems to be trying to ignore Teldrassil ever happened and ignore that the Horde or its players had anything to do with it.
The bad guy is Sylvanas and thats all we need to know it seems.
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- First, I did say my list wasnât complete.
- No offense, but I donât think you get to tell us whether itâs bad or not.
- Several of those quotes were about âthe Hordeâ (of which we PCs are members) being bad, not Sylvanas specifically.
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- if thatâs the worst you can come up with by being âshamedâ as you say then its not as bad.
- No offense taken but I am putting things into context. I am tired of the Horde playerbaseâs woes when in reality its not that horrific. If you donât play the Alliance side quests you barely even notice your âevilsâ after the pre-patch.
- only a few quotes with vague references. The game is not shaming you to the same degree that it is victimizing one side. I would understand if you got your own version of Teldrassilâs fail rescue mission but its just a torrent of NPCs shaming you.
Its just isnât even on the same scale.
Sure you got some NPCs referencing some vague evil that the Horde has done but at the same time you got Liadrin spearheading attacks and telling alliance to submit to the light.
If you were being truly shamed Liadrin would refuse to fight or at least be much more reserved in her fanaticism.
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We will have to agree to disagree.
Sure thing.
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Elune in theory could of. This is like asking why the Draenei didnt send in the Vindicaar or where the wild gods were during the war of Thorns; the plot demanded it occur and it did not matter what plot logic had to be warped to do so.
HOWEVER I would note that Bwonsamdi has also had his charges stolen to necromancy, it quite outrages him when someone has the gall to dare to steal souls from him⊠and for her part Elune definitely seems ticked off.
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No he doesnât. Bolvar confirms that Volâjin is not damned, nor is he undead. The Valkyr imply a higher power is behind what happened to Volâjin.
I donât believe she could have.
Er, yes he has. I was not referencing Volâjin. I was referencing Zalazane. He in life began stealing souls from Bwon to make zombie minions. And then in death during BFA not only somehow escaped Bwon and became a lich but then began mass raising other trolls, stealing their souls to make himself an army of undead.
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By stealing them before Bwonsamdi could get them, yes. He didnât steal them from Bwonsamdi.
It may have been the same entity that freed Volâjin. They could have been entirely uninterested in Zalazane, and thatâs why he was free to become a lich. The only example of which Iâm aware of souls being stolen from Bwonsamdi (and he implies this isnât a common occurrence) coincides with the higher power liberating Volâjin.
Volâjin isnât quite alive, or dead, or undead. He is stuck in what to all appearances is a very unique state of being akin to that of a Loa. Zalazane was flat out undead.
And that does not even factor in the Blood trolls who were flat out stealing long dead troll souls and going so far as to desecrate his temple to do so.
Bwon is on record saying he despises necromancy, and prides himself on not permanently loosing a single charge in a very, very long time before Volâjin. Sooo⊠yea. I somehow doubt he would just not care.
I am not getting the feeling you are debating this in good faith so, Imma just leave this at that.
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When you reach into a bowl of skittles, trying to get a red skittle, you are likely to get some of the other colors too.
Do you have a source? I find this impossible. Rezan, the most powerful Loa â the Loa of Kings â could not steal a soul from Bwonsamdi that was right infront of him and was left with the option of intimidating Bwonsamdi, or killing him, to get Rastakhan back.
I was referring to the Higher Power that grabbed the Volâjin skittle out of Bwonsamdiâs skittles bowl.
If I understand what DroitĂ© and Pellex are saying, it isnât that NPCs are wagging their fingers at the Horde players. Itâs that the Horde player is set up so that the only way they can level their characters is by participating in these shameful acts. Maybe all the finger-wagging is at Sylvanas, but the Horde player can still feel pretty awful about having to do the things that Sylvanas is getting the blame for.
Itâs one of the reasons that my latest attempt to play Horde-side failed again. I donât like doing awful things. So yeah, I really sympathize with Horde players who have to do awful things just in order to play the game they love on the characters they love. Or who, alternately, have to stop loving those things. That isnât fun either.
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Ohgod, me too. I get chills every time.
Completely fair.
What I wish, with all my heart, is that more people â especially writers and creators of popular culture consumables, if you will â would stop rolling with the benign neglect (which isnât really benign) and start thinking about these things and being willing to see them when theyâre pointed out. I donât think that every time someone says âoh look, thereâs a sexist or misogynist thingâ that theyâre right â we can disagree vehemently on whether one thing or another is sexist. What bothers the heck out of me is when people dismiss those things out of hand and out of defensiveness rather than looking at them from another perspective.
I mean, itâs possible for the same piece of pop culture to be interpreted in two diametrically opposed ways and both interpretations be defensible. This is where the fun discussions can happen! But only as long as everyoneâs discussing in good faith and is willing to listen and to look at things from another perspective.
Unconscious bias is still bias. Unconscious sexism is still sexism. Just because someone isnât doing a thing on purpose doesnât mean theyâre not doing the thing.
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Oof. /10ch
Thatâs nice and all, but what does that conversation have to do with this thread?
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