The one time the ancestors spoke to him was after kil’jaden had left him and they were pissed. So yes orc shaman could speak with their dead it was just very rare and was never forced like necromancy.
The Horde believing Ner’zhul when he tried warning everyone that he wasn’t speaking to ancestors but demons is one of the core choices that led to the split between New Horde and Old Horde.
In addition, up till Legion, Horde reveled in killing the Legion to get vengeance on what had been done to them before.
To pretend the Orcs didn’t know is dishonest.
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At this point, none of the conversations have anything to do with the original post, which was literally trying to talk about whether the Women In Refrigerators trope can be applied to the kaldorei in BfA. The conversations that were about the original post have been pretty much shouted down or derailed by folks who want to believe that if sexism isn’t intentional and on purpose and done consciously by people who hate women and are trying to show how much, that it doesn’t exist. And honestly I can hardly breathe for laughing, in that “if I didn’t laugh I’d punch walls” way.
The fact that writers continue to write these same tropes over and over and don’t see them, and that we continue to consume them and don’t notice them, is a function of the fact that it is unconscious bias.
I used to work with a guy who told me with a straight face that he had no unexamined assumptions. He believed he examined every assumption he had and was right about everything. Which is sort of like saying that you know what you don’t know. Which is some interesting mental gymnastics.
We don’t know what we don’t know. And we don’t recognize our unconscious bias because that is what “unconscious” means – we aren’t conscious of. But the fact that we aren’t conscious of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t influence us. Quite the opposite: it’s likely to influence us more because we aren’t aware of it and therefore aren’t equipped to mitigate its influence.
The Women In Refrigerators trope comes from unconscious bias. The fact that something is done unconsciously doesn’t mean that it isn’t done.
If I step on your foot without meaning to, that doesn’t mean your foot didn’t get stepped on or that I didn’t do it.
This is 101 stuff, but it’s so much easier and emotionally safer to think we live in a world where you have to mean to be biased before your biases can exist, and that as long as someone didn’t mean to do something – act in a biased manner, perpetuate a biased stereotype, write a biased trope over and over and over, happily consume a biased trope and shout down anyone who wants to talk about it – it doesn’t matter that they did, and it doesn’t affect anything.
It’s possible to love problematic content and still recognize that it’s problematic. The fact that the writers write these tropes doesn’t make the writers bad people, and enjoying the stories even though they’ve got these tropes and are perpetuating negative stereotypes doesn’t make us bad people. Refusing to look at them just means we’re human and we don’t like to see things in ourselves or in what we love that we think is probably wrong.
But letting other people talk about this stuff is okay, y’all, for real. I really, really wish we could have these conversations without folks wading in flailing the “it isn’t on purpose” baton like that means anything.
It doesn’t.
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I’m not sure what you’re reply had to do with me. I never said a bias doesn’t exist if it’s unconscious or unintentional. I said their bias is against the Night Elves as a race, not women as a whole (especially given the woman-driven nature of BfA). The Night Elves could be patriarcal and led by Malfurion or Jarod, or egalitarian and led by a random genderless wisp, and the problems would still remain.
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Do you mean me? My reply wasn’t about you, or about anyone specifically.
I didn’t think so. But somehow, even though you quoted Anya, your post direct replied to one of mine.
I have been completely unable to get the hang of the new forums section; I’m forever either replying to the wrong person when I swore I hit the right reply button, or not replying to anyone when I meant to reply to someone, and half the time when someone replies to me I can’t figure out what remark they’re replying to. Apologies for the confusion.
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Fair enough. I make the odd faux pas still. I usually peruse the forums on mobile, where things are a bit… cramped.
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You know what is also creepy? Abusing the forums report system to silence women in civil discourse.
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Nobody cares about your gender but you do you.
Why did you like your own post three times?
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It’s the only way to get self-validation for their own brand of insanity.
Alexia play Arthas my son
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Only character that should have gotten fridged is Princess panasaki or whatever the zandalari trolls name is.
Such a worthless character And annoying voice too.
Because your forum avatar is indicative of your gender IRL?
Get over yourself.
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I was referring to the attempts to derail the thread into Horde pity party that certain members shoehorned into the discussion.
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If the writers only did this to night elves you might have a point. But as it is right now, being brought low and having some of your most cherished locations destroyed/entire populations massacred is the norm to nearly every race in WoW. Why not ask say the gnomes, what they think of having lost their capital since the start of WoW, or the fact most of them died to due a betrayed from within.
Worgens, gnomes, draenei and even the humans have all lost their homes! Somes(like the humans and gnomes) managed to reclaim part/all of their homes. The draenei founded a new one, well in their case they founded a new homes twice!
The Horde races have also at one point or another lost their homes/were brought to near extinction. Taurens for example were supposedly nearly extinct in Warcraft 3. The trolls lost their homes in Stranglethorn. Blood elves only have half their capital back.
So… Where’s the forced failure quest to rescue the civilians of Gilneas? The zone, after zone, after zone, of Draenei losing, and having to wait months for a dev to deign tweet “J/K. You guys won, I guess.”? The themes and cultural identity of the Gnomes given away piece by piece, to their enemies no less? The writers orgasmically reveling in the death and destruction of Humanity as a race?
As frustrated as I am at the laboriously slow progress of Gnomeregan and Gilneas, saying “other people lost stuff” doesn’t magically make them comparable in scope, duration, and degradation. Especially in the case of Humanity, who’ve done nothing but win since launch, and expand the scope of their power and influence, at the expense of their allies, since Cata.
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sorry what?
Blizzard have been chipping away at that till all we have now is lakeshire and Gold shire.
Westfall is on fire still.
Darkshire was all legion cultists
nethergarde keep was destroyed.
Southshore was blighted
Lost all presence in Plague lands.
Theramore blown up.
camps that were build in Barrens were destoyed in same expac.
Every Human built keep in other expacs is almost always half built/onfire and being attacked constantly.
Sure Night elves got hit hard this expac but if they had done that to Stormwind Humans wouldn’t exist in the game.
Even Kultirans haven’t escaped this expac without being attacked 3 times and towns being destroyed.
I mean really the only Alliance race that hasn’t been constantly attacked or lost much infact have grown signifcantly is the Dwarves. Hope I don’t jinx that.
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Did you play the Worgen starting zone at all? It is nothing but loss after loss until gasp the night elves have to rescue HUMANS. And at least the night elven civilians had some of their civilians rescued, most of the gnomish population ended up dead in their own homes without any chance of being rescued.
The gnomes have always had part of their racial identity, mad geniuses, shared to a degree with the goblins. In some case gnomish biological knowledge(like perfecting the plague) and the ability to make powerful bombs can exceed goblins, and vice versa.
And dont get me started on the draenei. Even the AU draenei were nearly pushed to the brink and would have all been destroyed if not for the Alliance helping.
Hordehacker finally said something we can both agree on. Humans have not escape destruction. Don’t forget, Garrosh had some of the survivors of theramore turned into target practice.
And for all the loses the night elves have suffered, they still end up getting new zones/place of interest each and every expansion. 3/6 of the original Legion zones were dedicated to night elven culture.
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