You did.
That is your head canon. You show me kaldorei mages exist, and use it as “evidence” that the Kaldorei, as a culture, has completely abandoned their weariness of the Arcane, which is entirely your headcanon.
Amendment: They want you to feel righteously angry until they say it’s time to stop. (But to still be a little bit angry underneath so they can easily stir you up for PVP or for the next AvH expansion.)
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I did, did I?
Twice in one thread? I like how what you quoted of me doesn’t have the word imperial in there. Or, as you would put it:
Yes you did, you put forward your own headcanon then said you didn’t want to discuss headcanon.
Now you are devolving the narrative into a semantic argument You didn’t use the word “imperial”. Doesn’t change they you presented your own headcanon as fact, supported by quoted material that prove nothing of the sort… Which is a repetitive pattern for you.
You are honestly exhausting, you continuously put forward non-arguments, argue without reason or premise, muddy up the forums with citations that have nothing to do with the subject matter, and you are just, frankly, an annoying person to deal with.
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Thank you.
And this is a pattern of yours:
- The invincible ignorance fallacy [1] is a deductive fallacy of circularity where the person in question simply refuses to believe the argument, ignoring any evidence given. It is not so much a fallacious tactic in argument as it is a refusal to argue in the proper sense of the word, the method instead being to either make assertions with no consideration of objections or to simply dismiss objections by calling them excuses, conjecture, etc. or saying that they are proof of nothing; all without actually demonstrating how the objection fit these terms (see ad lapidem fallacy).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance_fallacy
Since when would you consider this to matter?
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Semantic arguments are lazy, man.
You still did this. And now we are here.
That might be because none of your garbage stacks up boyo.
It doesn’t, I am just making a statement.
You don’t like people putting words in your mouth any more than I do.
If you don’t try to misrepresent what I brought up I’ll be happy to discuss it. I won’t play the game of arguing against your strawman any more than you would, either, though.
So, this:
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The nelves use mages in the warfront
Well, the reasoning was kinda twofold, and the second justification not only extended past the Legion’s return, but arguably remains a cause for concern. Keeping the Legion out was paramount, but the ban also fed into the effort to steer their people back toward Nature and Elune, and away from the source of power that tends to produce castes of entitled elf mages who think they should be running society because their magic is the strongest.
Hence the lack of evident sympathy for Dath’remar’s crew being exiled. They weren’t just any bunch of kaldorei wishing their people could prosper as they once did; these were specifically remnants of the Highborne who still thought they knew best because of their arcane “birthright” and disdained anyone who disagreed (i.e. the druids and, given popular sentiment about arcane magic, basically the bulk of their people) as ignorant peasants who had no business deciding how their society should be run.
There’s just plain an escalated danger with elves being so fundamentally, physiologically susceptible to arcane addiction and the myriad behavioral hazards that come with it. Of which the high elves and Nightborne are unfortunately glaring cautionary lessons about taking intense care in promoting arcane use to, specifically, elves. Among a species so readily addicted to the arcane, those with the most of it are prone to rise above all others in station as they become more powerful from their own dependency, all the while still being influenced by the underlying drive of their own addiction.
Which would be why Sentinels keep a close eye on the Shen’dralar and their students. They weren’t just afraid the newly accepted Highborne might attract the Legion; they’re also concerned about them creating another Dath’remar situation where a demographic of powerful mana addicts threatens the safety of everyone else directly, because they know that their people’s inherent tendency toward arcane dependency can more easily lead them to become irrational, desperate and entitled than the mages of other mortal races.
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I certainly think you bring up a fair analysis Raselle (and, admittedly, likely the same one Akiyass was trying to bring up as well, putting aside the headcanon about clerical roles).
This was reflected in Elegy, but the same passage also shows that things have changed after the War of the Thorns as well:
- When a portal whirled open, the normally reserved night elves cheered. The magi who stepped through, who until this moment had only cautiously been made welcome in Darnassus, smiled in surprise. The cheers swelled when they each opened another portal—and reached a crescendo as, over the course of several minutes (and with not a few interruptions), a dozen bears, birds, and nightsabers came through.
I think with the events of Ashenvale and Darkshore that Night Elf Mages are integrated a lot more wholistically into Night Elf society now, same as Maiev was invited back in as well:
- Tyrande Whisperwind says: The time has come to reclaim our home. Maiev, you will command our forces.
Maiev Shadowsong says: You place much faith in me, given our… history.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: We cannot dwell in the past… not with our very future at stake.
I feel this sentiment is probably shared towards the Night Elf Mages at this point as well.
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No one put words in your mouth. You presented your headcanon as lore.
No misrepresenting here, it is literally what you did.
Yes, saying “I’m pretty sure” is saying “this is absolute canon.” (This is sarcasm by the way.)
Like earlier in this thread you tried to put words in my mouth and misrepresent my point about Suramar not joining the Night Elf resistance meaning they rejoined the Legion at the time, so too did you try to paint my saying that Night Elf culture has likely changed to be inclusive of Night Elf Mages now as saying the Night Elves were going back to their imperial roots.
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I did none of those things… You are the one who tries to present unrelated lore to back up your points. You don’t actually have evidence to back up your claims, so you merely present it as if it does. It is a gaslighting tactic and honestly, a pretty garbage thing to do.
You should take your own advice and read your own posts:
I called you out on the things you said lol. Dude, I swear, explaining anything to you is like trying to learn to write without using your hands.
And now you use gaslighting tactics to backpeddle. Devolving the narrative into a semantic one, because you got called out.
We already covered this:
And as you acknowledged:
Or, as you would put it:
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uh huh, you didn’t use the word “Imperial” but everything else about your post drove home the implication of your meaning. Again, you are using semantics to distract people, and trying to gaslight me. I am not going to let you do it.
Oh indeed, by the time of BfA the night elves seem to have warmed to the idea more, though the Wardens and Sentinels in particular probably remain pretty seriously vigilant about monitoring the night elf mages for the aforementioned reasons, and I suspect we’re a long ways from them letting any such mages have any significant power in generally leading their people.
I was just pointing out that the humans, high elves and other races in general using magic in spite of the night elves’ own prohibition wouldn’t necessarily have provided sufficient grounds for them to lift the restrictions sooner, as the night elves themselves are well aware of just how susceptible their people are in particular to arcane addiction and the myriad tragic consequences associated with it, both to the addicted and to those around them.
Which is probably why they continue to view the high elves and Nightborne with particular suspicion (as far as them using arcane magic, not them being Horde.) From their point of view, they see two entire civilizations of fellow recovering addicts who should know better, yet irresponsibly continue tempting fate by indulging in the widespread use of a power that uniquely erodes their race’s capacity for moderation and self-control, to a degree beyond any other race.
And it really wouldn’t have dissuaded them of that mindset concerning their Horde-aligned cousins when they got to watch Suramar and Silvermoon become footholds for the Burning Legion in no small part because their respective mana-addicted leaders became grossly irresponsible when they couldn’t moderate their own behavior and sense of entitlement.
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And you’re trying to put words in my mouth still and I’m not going to get you do it.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade got to be a leader at the Darkshore Warfront, though in general I think you still have a point about Night Elf Mages not being particularly high up on leadership, but, there’s not really a lot of upward mobility in leadership of the Night Elves, either. It’s been Tyrande and Malfurion and Shandris for ten-thousand years, and no one’s really looking to change that.
I do think you have a point on the risk of addiction, but even that seem to have lessened, as Tyrande even spoke positively of the Illidari when they came back.
The comparison is not perfect, but with the ban on magic being lifted, it’s like oxycodone being legal, and treating people differently depending on if they use it responsibly versus people who intentionally abuse it because of an opioid addiction.