You will never dps in a raid as ret, unless you want to troll all your other members.
Ok in bgs, scales like a warrior though.
Holy decent in pve, again scales with crit.
That notion was started well before the streamers started playing classic again. Started on private servers. And the reason people dont want to take the meme specs is because of the reason you said earlier the raids are to easy. To have fun in the raids people want to see how high their parses can go. And bringing specs like ret, shadow, balance, enhance, ele, etc. Lowers their personal parses as the boss takes longer to kill.
I could care less as I dont raid often, I mainly pvp. But some of the best pvp gear comes from raiding so when I do raid I want it done as quickly as possible.
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I asked how the class was in the P0-1 phase.
Also, you want me to look up parses? Fine. Tell me where to find them. Because Warcraftlogs for vanilla only show SoD parses. And I don’t even know how well these can be trusted when they’re based solely on the recount post by a user who was in the raid at the time. I can grind on mobs pre-raid and pad my overall parse and then post raid totals and show I’m on top. And finding a ret parse is going to be A LOT easier to find than finding an Arms War parse.
But fresh servers are coming online in 15 minutes so I say we put this argument on hiatus until we get stuck in the inevitable login queue and need something to bicker about to pass the time.
The class remains the same regardless of phase because gear doesn’t change how it plays apart from T3 adding some more healing to cleanse
You need to sort the parses through iteration, which can be done by clicking “Vanilla” at the top then going to the “Raids” section and scrolling down to the raid you want. Then you should se “S0” in the Statistics section for raid DPS and sort accordingly, it doesn’t change all that much whether it’s in SoM or not.
There’s no argument, you asked for “truthfully” and I’m giving it to you. But I’m happy to check back in when you can link me some longs to substantiate all that you’ve said and I’ll keep my eye on the community who apparently take dueling so seriously. Maybe a Paladin will be top 5 this time?
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ppl enjoy holy pala too , shockadin is fun
My man is asking for logs, not an inflated details meter lmao.
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Not even that fine in PvP. Its just not well designed.
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30 second cooldown on Holy Shock makes Shockadin very limited. Holy Paladin should heal. Thats what the spec excels at.
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yeah holy heals…but holy is fun once u get some crit gear , healing for free FoL FOL and FOOOOL SOME MORE free cost 
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Theres going to be a lot of warriors and they will not want a ret taking any of their gear.
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Depends on what you mean by prot paladin. Do you mean at least 11 points in holy first, then prot? Cause full on prot points only flat out isn’t playable. And i don’t mean bad, i mean it doesnt work. Since you specifically said prot and he got to level 24, it would make sense logically. I’m down for meme specs and having fun but, trying to paladin tank without consecration is trolling.
Ret is slightly better for tanking just because you can do more damage but, any aoe pack and it’s also miserable.
what?
I remember it being very challenging compared to playing Priest due to not having an AOE heal to fall back on. Similar to the description of tanking in this thread, it’s possible if everyone does exactly the right thing. Blessing of salvation on every DPS, single target DPS, judgment of light on target, cross fingers.
It’s been 20 years and I’m happy to be wrong.
you are a healer, primarily Paladins are tank healers. Paladins dont heal the raid, that is the priest’s job
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Paladin is bad , never more than average.
not true Paladin is the best tank healer
Ret might be rough at first. Make the R14 push though and you will destroy people as a Grand Marshal.
Not against other grand marshals.
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autoattacks are still autoattacks lmao
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Paladins shine as tanks in any of the demon or undead 5/10mans. The inate bonuses on their kit to those types make it much easier to handle threat than the standard mobs.
It was proven in 2019 classic and 2005 that under the right circumstances players and comps could MT or OT the later raids. Druids too. You just unfortunately have to deal with community gatekeeping, but its a mega server so maybe it wont be that bad