I keep hearing how fun mw is, but how is it doing? I heard some doom and gloom before but seemingly less so now? Are ppl optimistic about changes?
It’s performing well in both M+ and raid (unsure about pvp). Most of the doom I’ve seen is exclusively from the forums from people who don’t like the FLS build OR from people who don’t like the CF build in raid currently. The main thing in M+ is that it isn’t Paladin so it can be hard to pug since LFG tends to opt for the meta specs more.
The Mana Tea changes in 10.1.7 are very good buffs for M+ and raid (again unsure about pvp) and it gives a lot of agency to the player when it comes to mana, which is something MW has struggled with historically.
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Do you believe mana tea will br significant? I saw ppl saying a few days ago that it would not help things.
Yeah it’s significant. We lose Spirit of the Crane but that was such a minimal amount of mana return that it’s not a big loss and we will be gaining much more from Mana Tea. We’ll eventually lose Rashok’s and our current tier set which is propping up our mana pool quite a bit atm, so this change is built to help offset some of the loss there.
In keys, to regen we’d have to use BoK even if we were losing out on damage to get little drops of mana back whereas with the new Mana Tea we can spend mana on whatever and gain stacks regardless. This is is big for long AOE gauntlets like in Brackenhide, we spend lots of mana on SCK and in those packs we only really use SCK so Spirit of the Crane gets very little use out of it. Just from limited testing, Spirit of the Crane returned 227.9k mana in a 26 BH and on PTR we did a run with new Mana Tea gave about 317k over 15mins compared to the 30 min timer on Bracken. So the more you spend, the more you gain and it’s much more forgiving than SotC.
In raid, we’re more mana hungry with our ramp and we can also utilize the mana reduction part for better efficiency. Downtime in raid is more punishing than in keys but there will still be opportunities to take sips vs longer drinks to either use the reduction or focus on the regen aspect
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I play an off meta version of the CF build and I’m having a lot of fun. I don’t feel like I struggle at all with keeping the group up… except when that one dps insists on standing in/getting hit by everything.
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Yeah, unfortunately not everyone has prefect top tier dps/players. CF is great for pugs.
You drink between pulls. We will just mana tea between pulls, or maybe on some tyrannical fights that are longer. Dont act this like adds/buffs anything important to m+ rofl…
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Monk is extremely fun and can pump - but youll just be working 33% harder than every other healer and still be lacking certain tools ( DR for group type, also the things we bring are easily things that can be brought by other people ) conveniences that other healers have. Instead of our spells/mana being balanced like every other healer we are getting a mana mini game next patch where we need to monitor stacks and channel frequently to regen.
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You can have your opinion, but based on my experiences this is a good change and preps us for the future without relying on external mana or stopping to drink too much.
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So explain to me how mana tea is good for Faeline builds (which you say are mandatory for higher keys) given that channeling the tea is a direct downtime from DPS?
Not to mention that you can just eat mage food outside of combat so mana tea between packs is useless?
Oh right it’s just your opinion not actually fact because the facts indicate that it’s not a good mechanic at all
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Seems like monks are still conflicted.
y’all are so aggressive for no reason lol
The tea channels are short, especially if you use it as maintenance throughout the dungeon rather than build up full stacks and drink them all, but even then with Energizing Brew (which is most likely what we’ll end up using in M+) 20 stacks takes about 5 seconds of drinking Mana Tea (from empty, restores 50% mana). Drinking from empty to full with Spittle (best under mage food) takes about 16 seconds, so for 50% we can say 8-9 sec, since drinking ramps it depends on how long you have to drink. The drinking portion is only accounting for the time spend after you’re seated.
Sure you can eat food out of combat but that’s downtime that adds up over the course of a key, then you have to consider things like Spiteful and Bursting which further delay your sit by either keeping you in combat or not allowing you to stay seated until you dispel yourself or it times out. Sometimes combat just takes a couple seconds to drop, or you won’t be dropping combat at all since the mobs leftover in the pull aren’t threatening mobs and you can just chain. In higher keys you’re trying to have as little downtime as possible and drinking is a large portion of it, very wasteful on timer.
When it comes to the dps downtime, you just have to pick the good times to drink. Take Brackenhide as an example again with the gauntlet area. For a majority of the time we’ll be using SCK and generating Mana Tea stacks off of that. Currently in 10.1.5 we either:
- Have to stop combat, sit, and drink before continuing – it’s not a good place to stop since you usually just chain into the next pack since Lashers are funnel/non-threatening and actually beneficial to MW specifically when healing the bleed stacks they apply since we have funnel healing.
or
- Give up our highest DPS ability (SCK) and instead swap to BOK rotation to use Spirit of the Crane that will give back very very little mana in comparison and also does significantly less damage when there’s 4 or more mobs (which the entire gauntlet has).
In 10.1.7 we will be able to use SCK & other spells to generate Mana Tea stacks. Instead of being forced to kill the leftover mobs to sit and drink or give up significant damage by swapping from SCK to BOK for SoTC, we can simply drink the 5 seconds of tea as we walk to the next pull without needing to stop.
TLDR: New Mana Tea better fits our profile due to our high use of SCK in M+ and allows us to have agency over our mana pool without forcing us into a DPS (and in some cases, HPS) loss or forcing groups to stop so we can drink.
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Whenever MW gets a change this happens, which is somewhat understandable considering MW has a long-running issue with inconsistency in performance.
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No monks aren’t exactly conflicted, we’ve actually been in pretty good agreement for the first time in a long time on these forums (In my opinion)
but yesterday this toixic guy showed up out of no where trying to gate keep by saying that a certain build is mandatory when it’s not exactly true and he is also pushing for this mana tea change that the vast majority of monks are not happy with.
But sorry I should have answered your question OP.
Monk is incredibly fun and also powerful you should definitely give it a try.
I can’t play other healers because monk is so unique I love it so much
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I like your dialogue, it brings interesting insight. Monks unhappiness have went into general multiple times and I have become curious.
Because no matter how unhappy they get, they still say its really unique and fun, a constant assertion.
are you talking about this? Potential 10.1.7 Mistweaver Changes - #72 by Toixic-icecrown
You can reread what I wrote, wasn’t gatekeeping anything or offering an opinion on anything at all, just pointing out that the monks you cited as non-faeline actually play FLS in keys but they logged out in raid build and attempted to clear up the confusion of that.
This is unique to the forums, most MW I have talked to in general are very excited for this change, especially the ones who played the older versions of Monk
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Yes I am talking about that thread.
There’s a difference between being happy about nostalgia with mists of pandaria and the actual functionality of mechanics with the modern game — don’t conflate the two.
Forced downtime for a mechanic that is relatively uninteresting (it’s a glorified mana potion mixed with mage water)
It’s really bizarre that they are happy with it.
We should be wanting a more interesting mechanic that better fits the current game style of GOGOGO.
People already struggle to play MW Which negatively contributes to the community perception around MW and adding more downtime to the rotation not only complicates things for people already struggling but it is just straight up downtime added to the rotation with no added benefits (literally it’s just a bandaid fix replace the mana from rashoks and the tier) not even a 1 to 1 replacement because that mana came entirely passively whereas this is downtime
They have not added compensation for the downtime in damage bonuses and healing increases yet either so it’s just purely frustrating
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Monk is fun for me because of Rising Mist
I really like the concept of extending my HoT effects by doing damage.
There is a lot of rotational decision making centered around using your HoTs at the right time before a rising Sun kick to extend them
Monk is about maintenance buffs that increase your healing and then fishing for procs and using them to do bursts of healing. I love it.
When you see an enveloping mist proc or a mending proliferation proc and are able to cast your spells into it it feels great.
Also spinning to win is pretty fun, same with all of their control utility (There’s a lot! And ring of peace is just so win)
I think that this is a benefit though, the devs are aware of the mana issues we face and are setting us up for success by offering tools that prevent us from completely flopping after Rashok/Tier. It isn’t a 1:1 swap but I wouldn’t expect this Mana Tea change to be the last of it, probably just the first step in fixing the mana issues as a long term goal.
I agree and think there’s a LOT of stuff they could do to make it more beginner friendly or, if they want it to be as complex as it is, they could at least lower the barrier to entry a bit.
MW’s perception issue is not easy to fix, and it’s been an issue since the beginning of Monk so it will take a while to rectify, I have high hopes for the dev that has been working on DF MW. Trying to be patient with it but it is what it is.
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False. Disc is much harder and is much worse in raids and certain M+ pugs. MW isn’t that hard compared to Druid, preservation, and Disc.
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MW difficulty has definitely ramped up in raid since SL, it’s around Disc priest difficulty now with the CF build, but druid and pres are much easier than disc/MW.
Keys are a bit diff but MW/Disc are pretty close in terms of power & difficulty.
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