And glyph of detonation would fix basically every issue you listed except the going into melee part, which it would reduce as you wouldnt have to go as close.
The area in which an active trap can hit a boss is quite large, meanibg for most bosses dropping the trap just outside of melee range (and it activating there) it would be hitting the boss.
Yes we would still essentially be with melee, but the running in and out would essentially stop as after activation the area the trap effects is quite large and enemy hitboxes properly read if it is being effected by explosive trap. The current problem is the trigger radius for activating the trap.
Again, trap weaving can be considered bad gameplay design, but thats not what i am arguing. Im arguing to fix the biggest issue all 3 specs have in practical dps performance, without touching potential dps performance. After the practical dps performance is made stable, then we can better see if the potential dps needs a buff.
Best case prediction is MM catches up to surv, which is at the bottom of the dmg meters, and that requires full bis. Who is giving 4 pc and Death’s Verdict to the hunter?
Isn’t the only reason Marksmen is currently down so low because they don’t have Armor Pen yet? Let them get ToC gear and they might spike due to it.
I heard in a deep dive that it wasn’t ArP that made MM better, but the higher ilvl wpns. But we already have a 252 wpn, a 258 wouldn’t make that much of a difference.
MM catches SV in single target in full bis togc gear, but the moment aoe/cleave is added (which a lot of fights have) it falls behind again
Its a bit if both.
The better weapon increases the value gained from armor pen.
Tier bonuses matter a lot when it comes to parsing… Hunter gear is… well, rather lacking in ToGC.
The priest tier bonuses are even worse in ToGC so you can take comfort in that.
Blizzard haphazardly provided the best sets in different phases for different classes so this is the inevitable outcome of that “process”.
Yea, but like Ret we know exactly why that was teh case. He’s right it’s a little less obvious for MM
TBH it’s looking pretty bleak for hunters. Their best spec is going to fall off hard as other physical classes gain ArP, and while MM might eventually catch Survival, they’re never going to catch Mage/Lock or any of the other phys classes that will also benefit from ArP and started a lot higher.
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Why do people think it’ll “take some time to really know where MM lands”. The gear isn’t that large of an upgrade from Ulduar gear because of how much they buffed it. The new set bonuses are incredibly mediocre and don’t do anything special for MM. Things are not going to shift drastically.
Also, wowsims github io wotlk hunter has been a fairly reliable sim (i can’t actually link it), especially if you know that the DPS numbers sims provide are only really useful for comparing different builds within a class (if you are using it to compare DPS between classes, you are going to draw some pretty poor conclusions). It paints a pretty clear picture for MM versus SV.
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It’s actually a mix of Arp and weapon damage.
ArP means less of your damage is absorbed by armor, so its value basically scales off your weapon damage in a sense. A bit like Crit. ArP makes your hard hitting weapons hit harder. But if you’re swinging a wet noodle it won’t do much for you.
It’s the combination of high end weapon damage AND ArP that starts to make MM click.
Combat Rogues are in a similar spot as their SS spammable is based on weapon damage too.
I still think something’s up with ArP in classic though.
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Something is definitely wrong with armor and/or ArP in Classic, specs performs wildly different on Pservers (and back in OG Wrath). ArP was changed just before ICC patch but IIRC the change was that they added a cap to ArP on gear to prevent going over 100%.
As for MM in general, things like Wild Quiver could receive a small buff, Piercing Shot could include Kill Shot, Rapid Recuperation could be useful, Efficiency should be 2 or 3 points maximum, etc there’s many small things they could tweak to up the spec a little bit.
That WCL week 2 chart is pretty bad, you can clearly see how bad MM is.
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So I think why MM is performing so bad has been pretty well analyzed. The other question then is why is Blizzard allowing a pure DPS class to have only one remotely viable DPS spec? One that is barely hanging on and is, as well pointed out, propped up by a class mechanic that can be unreliable?
It seems that given we are well past Nochanges, which I personally am fine with, it would make sense to Somechanges Hunters so that, IMO, Surv’s traps are a little more reliable AND MM is a viable DPS spec as well.
Of the 4 pure DPS classes the only other one that only has one viable PvE DPS spec are Mages with Fire. And given that Arcane sits right around where Surv (And even pulls ahead in ST fights!) it is not a good look for what Blizzard thinks of Hunters in classic LK.
Now this is a a story as old as WoW. A pure DPS class sits in the dumpster and wonders what is going to happen. If anything we are kind of living the classic experience wondering if an upcoming patch will change things.
So, if I had my way I’d be ok with the proposed changes to Surv that others have made. I’ve been playing my Hunter as Surv but I’ve never been happy about it. I’d rather go back to MM and as such what I’d propose for that is, in keeping with the theme of how changes are being made to classic LK:
Major Glyph of the Chimera: Your Serpent Sting damage has the chance to reset the cooldown on Chimera Shot.
This would allow for a bit more damage that does not rely on ArP for Hunters who are leveling up while playing MM. Should not change much of the other Sting effects too much. Could even add in that that CS is no mana if it tested that Hunters using it were going OOM too fast.
Bottom line for me is that something should be done for Hunters, including buffing MM to be at least viable, vs forcing a pure DPS class into one barely viable spec for a whole version of the game.
ArP snowballs as it scales exponentially. Each point does more than the last unlike something like crit that DRs with each point or haste that is either flat, soft caps, or potentially rollercoasters based off breakpoints. It got axed at end of WOTLK because of how crazy it gets when fully stacked.
So despite all the doom and gloom I do expect MM to come into its own, but it may not be enough or may be way too late in the game. Lots of factors here for why, such as Classic patch design vs OG, player skill, or just simply old school players getting it wrong and current players coming up with something better.
I heard that Surv has a similar % physical dmg, so ArP wouldn’t drastically favor MM.
I don’t really remember at this point, but as I recall surv damage doesn’t scale as well with ArP due to things like black arrow and explosive shot (which I assume doesn’t benefit from ArP). A quick icy veins read didnt get specific but stated surv doesn’t benefit as much due to their damage breakdown.
May not be as poorly as Ret due to holy damage not benefitting from ArP, but that was the logic.
I did alt a hunter in WOTLK and Surv stayed a viable option to play in ICC. From what I recall MM was a very difficult swap to make as it was very gear dependent. High ArP and good weapon = swap. DBW also huge upgrade. As my hunter was like my 3rd alt I never seriously considered playing MM at all.
According to the sims, MM shots are 53% physical, and Surv is about 40%.
Chimera shot is nature.
53% compared to 40% is a 32.5% increase in physical damage compared to survival. Also MM is supposed to drop arcane shot eventually due to not benefitting from ArP so if that 53% uses it then the percent will go higher.
CS might be nature, but it’s based on weapon damage. ES and BA are both AtP based and deal elemental damage. Not sure if CS damage benefits from ArP or not based on the topltip wording. Sometimes Blizzard is weird with how damage is calc’d. Regardless because it’s weapon damage based that pushes its damage way up compared to the AtP based abilities Surv has.
According to the sims, it doesn’t benefit from ArP. I added a 1000 ArP and the dmg of Chim shot didn’t go up at all. The sim doesn’t seem to cast Arcane shot either.
Yeah, but hunters weren’t stacking a full set of 252 ilvl ArP gear in Ulduar to get their marks set ready in ToC.
It was hard enough to fully kit in 252 ilvl gear for your primary spec with how Ulduar loot worked, nevermind a second spec with a bunch of competitive off-pieces if they were playing survival in Ulduar.
Most people are getting a pretty sizeable jump in ilvl from ToC heroics just because it doesn’t only drop 1 item out of 7 per week per boss.
The stronger hunter players were / are playing survival. It’ll take a while for them to swap over to marks if/when it surpasses that spec, just like mages didn’t instantly all go fire in week 2 of Ulduar.
I personally think the transition will happen more in ICC, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see some shift towards marks in late ToC if that breakpoint is being met.