I fully disagree with him and think that is a horrible excuse. People can ask the leader of the group they join if it is on ML or PL. If they say ML then it is the players discretion to join or not.
The reason this was used in guilds is because back in Vanilla and BC (and probably even beyond) when it was hard to catch up if you missed out on a raid tier, people would use lower progressed guilds since they couldn’t join higher progressed ones due to their gear, and would get gear and then up and leave right away.
Putting ML on and rules like, “New members are on trial and can’t get gear for x amount of time” was to prevent this because people who had to wait weeks or longer to start getting gear, then they felt more compelled to stay and weeded out those who weren’t going to be loyal.
There is nothing wrong with ML and never needed to be remove. The players can decide for themselves if they want to join a ML guild/pug. Now if in a pug and they tell them it is PL yet change it to ML then action can be taken and a reportable offense.
I was trying to think of a solution for this so that mostly everyone is happy and came up with this:
- Loot is no longer notified to anyone other than the person who received it.
- Loot can be freely traded.
- Gear can no longer be inspected, with ilvl being reported with random variance so as to negate guild leaders from booting people just because they see an ilvl increase.
There you go. If you want some form of ML back that’s how you do it while eliminating pressure. It comes at the cost of the armory though. People in nice guilds will be able to freely link what they got, while people in idiot guilds can just not say anything and get loot.
This is a really good idea, even with PL in place lol.
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Until someone makes an addon that reports what loot you got and progression guilds make it required.
Just make an addon that tells the other addon you have it and have it not report anything.
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Children on the losing end of an argument resort to attacking someone’s armory and think that if they point out how someone else doesn’t have a rabbit’s foot token, then their argument must be invalid.
You have to understand, these people feel completely powerless. They’re a minority who are pathologically addicted, they have zero influence over the future of the game and that causes what is called “learned helplessness” which causes all kinds of psychological issues. Basically, if people think they don’t have a healthy outlet for their angst or control over the situation, they became erratic, irrational, and aggressive.
I’m good with it. My warlock shared the same tier token with priests. The healer always got the tier token from master looter.
People in idiot guilds would be far better served by leaving those guilds
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This is my stance. You cannot say there is more control or agency when you cannot decide what you wanna do with the loot when something so vague as an item level number prevents you from helping your friends. It’s incredibly hypocritical.
Yeah, loot isn’t rewarding in the game anymore. It’s not meant to be. There’s no player agency involved anymore, just a bunch of random dice rolls.
BFA was probably the first expansion where getting loot was outright boring.
I agree, I’m not sure why they added this additional bar. Sometimes a side grade for me could be a HUGE upgrade for someone else, but because of some weird ilvl restriction on loot, I can’t give it to them.
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I don’t even need loot, I don’t care about gearing up this character or any others, I wish they’d let us trade it.
I just want all the pets! 
In my experience, roughly half or so of the guilds would use loot council/master loot reasonably appropriately. The rest would screw over their players while maintaining a veneer or ‘it’s for the good of the guild’ (I often ended up an officer so I got a very good look at this from behind the scenes).
For those who got into the good guilds, they had a good time.
For those who didn’t, it was rough, because leaving that guild might mean leaving behind friends, or potentially not being able to find one on the level you were working on, or just not being 100% sure it was you getting screwed over instead of the luck of the draw - you didn’t want to be selfish, after all. By the time you were sure, it might be months or longer of your time wasted.
In the current system, you can’t perfectly align loot drops as needed to benefit the guild, but it’s also a lot harder to have guilds deliberately screw over their members so that - for example - the Raid Leader and their BFF always gets first dibs on everything (which would of course be justified by how ‘they’ve been a consistent player since the guild was founded, and the guild rewards consistency. Don’t worry, one day you’ll be there. One day…’)
It’s not just ‘bring it back so my guild can use it appropriately’. There are a lot of guilds who would be perfectly happy to use it to screw over their members once again.
It’s another factor of guild raiding that’s just broken. I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten an item on an alt and wanted to pass it to someone who is new to the guild on their main and can’t because it’s an upgrade for me.
Also I have no value as a guild leader, raid leader, person in charge because I cannot encourage people to stay with us and participate for the gear. I can only hold the value of participation over their heads as a matter of discipline. And that’s completely worthless now since they can just jump into a pug and get the same level of toxic behavior that they give off.
For those reasons, I feel like WoW encourages the anti-social toxicity and the ultimate demise in guilds.
Then you didn’t need to link the armory of his character. Feels like a call out thread, so hope you picked out good vacation clothes.
Was already flagged. Mods removed the flags. They must be fine with this thread.