With huge queue times, server crashes and downtime.
Like I said itâs the decision to have layering and not the fact that itâs a beta. If they were going to put LFR in classic saying, âthey can fix LFR itâs just in betaâ wouldnât matter itâs the fact they are putting it in.
You still with her?
Yes, please do. Because as weâve seen many times before, new systems that get introduced in the beta may very well end up the same way in the original game, especially if theyâre already working as intended.
That, alongside many other smaller changes and actual issues find themselves into a release regardless of being reported multiple times (and met with your voluntary community support colleagues âare you sure youâre aware its a beta? Do you need explanation on what beta means?â every single time somethingâs brought up).
Layeringâs working, aside from extremely obvious bugs like getting stuck in place at the SW gate which is clearly not supposed to happen.
I got to see it in action myself, and made use of it as it actually was intended. Others have shown how it works as well.
That it functions this accurately already (as itâs described to function) is quite frankly impressive. ![:clap:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/clap.png?v=6" ":clap:")
BUT! Itâs got no place in Classic WoW. Iâll very gladly welcome this tech in retail WoW, where it can do a lot of good, and put that game on a path back to being more community driven which will pay off a lot for Blizzard and the players.
Then donât play classic for a few weeks. Seriously, itâs a couple weeks for a clean launch, and then youâre never going to see it again for the next 10 years. Is it REALLY that big of a deal? SERIOUSLY?!?!?!!? At this point, I think a lot of you are complaining against it just to complain. Itâs not permanent, it will not be permanent, and itâs going to take up such a miniscule amount of time in game, that it should not be that big of a deal
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LOL. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone claims that. ![:laughing:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/laughing.png?v=6" ":laughing:")
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Just like a normal launch would be, except itâs not going to take weeks or months to balance itself out like with layering, and the game + the community forming within each realm can actually stay the same all the way through, allowing for the experience the game design was meant for in the first place.
But here we are, people trying to push modern gamer type of thinking onto an audience that precisely is looking to avoid that in Classic, telling them to wait some more and put up with a different version of the game for weeks or months while they are at it.
Just so you can be spared that of which you ask others to do in your stead.
So? What about if YOU wait, as you ask of these players to do that actually want the full version of Classic, many of them already having waited for several years?
That way the game can actually stay the way thatâs been asked for all this time, instead of trying to make it be tailored to your modern preferences, which are absolutely not necessary for the launch and are just there massage the modernized audience into this old game.
If you canât make it through an MMORPG launch, and canât appreciate/accept it for what it is and carry on, then youâre not going to stay in Classic anyways.
Itâs an old game and will show that time and time again when you play. What then? Some more changes perhaps to suit your preferences as you hit a wall somewhere?
Are too many people at AQ going to justify layering again for you, because âitâs just such a miniscule amount of time, deal with it!â? Itâs a slippery slope.
Let me make this clear:
Layering: You have the OPTION to wait or just deal with it
No Layering: Well, Iâm sure you remember the DAYS worth of constant server crashes, unplayable lag, and sitting in queue rather than being allowed to play your game, just to have to go back into queue because RANDOM DC!!!
So basically, why donât I just wait? Simple, because without layering, youâre not playing either.
You mean the days from 15 years ago?
Are you implying Blizzard has stayed with the same tech from that long ago, and the launch would have the same issues as back then? Come on.
They havenât stayed with that tech, at all, and they stated that multiple times! The fact they even consider using layering is because they have such powerful tech that they can even use something as intense as it.
They said Elwynn Forest alone can hold 1k players at the same time if they wanted it to.
Itâs not a tech issue! Waiting in a queue is not a big deal because itâs over very quickly and people will distribute across all servers, some with bigger queues, and some with barely or any at all.
With layering, those who donât want to play some other version of Classic, aka layered Classic, will have to wait weeks or months to play the actual game, which actually is going to be released the moment layering is gone.
Itâs an unnecessary, and in fact very risky modern feature to use if the old longterm audience is going to be those people who want to play unlayered Classic, which is what theyâre coming back for. Theyâre the longterm players that will decide how well Classic will do in the long run, but for that, they first have to be convinced itâs worth staying!
Blizzard even stated itâs their main audience. Yet theyâre trying to please both audiences with this, thinking they can make them all happy. But by trying that, theyâre actually only appealing to the modern audience, which is much more likely to return to retail/off Classic because the game as a whole doesnât cater to them at all in the first place. Itâs not a win/win.
One thing to keep in mind si that an expansion is vastly different than launching classic. When classic launches every will be level one. So all the humans will be doing the same content. That creates a massive bottleneck. When TBC launched a huge amount of players werenât 60. So the bottleneck is much smaller. Even when WOTLK launched i didnât see a huge amount of overcrowding in the zones. Mostly because there were two different zones we could choose from. Ya know once the servers stopped crashing lol
I only got an impression of what that could look like in the stress test. But omg, it was so awesome to see all the masses of people running about. Northshire got cleansed of wolf and gnoll infestations for the next 50 years!
It was also surprisingly quick to finish the quests at the start, even with so many people about (i grouped up all the way), and the people were chatty and goofy.
To me all these big crowds seem like so much fun, and especially because it starts at lvl 1, itâs extra exciting and special to be part of that.
I never got to see this part of WoW. Iâd love to get a chance to see it this time, and level all the way with the same people (in the same worldâŚ!) to 60 ![:slightly_smiling_face:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slightly_smiling_face.png?v=6" ":slightly_smiling_face:")
Unless you introduce significant restrictions on changing layer:
e.g.
- At character creation, get a default layer that you will always return to (until its collapsed)
- 10 minute to 1 hour cooldown on changing layers (excluding returning to default layer)
- Required to enter a rested zone (Inn or City) before changing layers.
Some of us have proof of it. (Though no, you cannot have my login details to look at my payment history going back to 23rd Nov)
This would be even more exploitable as players would have more definitive players they could layer jump to
A great example of harming genuine players. Not being able to quest for 10-60 minutes because you had just played with another players layer. I see this âfixâ suggested a lot and itâs a horrible solution that would break the normal gameplay
Another great example of harming genuine players and another one people suggest a lot. Finding an elite mob or being in a questing zone and not being able to join a friend/guildy that is there simply because you have to run back to an inn or city breaks the normal gameplay.
These examples are exactly what Iâm talking about. People suggest even more ridiculous gamebreaking features. How about just removing layering which is the source of the problem?
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Servers had multiple hour long queues. They crashed. Many people couldnât play the new expansion they had just bought for days. How do you forget this?
Literally a strawman argument. Who said you canât quest for 10-60 minutes? You canât switch layers again, except to return to your default layer. How does that prevent questing??? It simply stops you from jumping from layer to layer, i.e. the exploit.
Again strawman. If you found it, other players would need to come to you. And jumping layers for a Rare Mob kill is the exploit weâre trying to fix. So thankyou for confirming it would work.
Ah you are one of those strawman trolls who spams strawman to every strawman point YOU bring up.
Those quotes are referring to player interaction. Genuine players swap guild members, friends, and other players very often especially in vanilla WoW where you need to group up and putting inn/city/time restrictions on that is a huge problem. You would have WoW burn to the ground just so you can enjoy it as a single player experience.
Nope. Only when people twist what I said, and argue against their own interpretation instead of what was posted.
Ok, so in that case, Million Hour cooldown on switching layers, and it starts on cooldown.
Each layer will have a full realmâs worth of players. If you want to follow your own argument, then the perfect solution is to prevent layer switching at all, and therefore what I gave was a concession to grouping. You shouldnât get access to 9000 players on your server, so therefore the correct thing to give you what you want, while not destroying the launch, is to lock layers so you canât group with anyone not on your layer, and therefore never change.
Exploit fixed, authenticity maintained.
Otherwise, youâre intentionally and willfully arguing cross purposes for the intent of undermining an argument by misrepresentation because you donât like it.
AKA strawman.
I remember WOTLK launch fondly, I had preordered from EB Games and went to the midnight sale to pick up my discs. Got home, installed and patched, took around 2 hours, then for the next week or 2, the server was up, the server was down, the server was up, we patched and patched some more. The server was up, the server was down. There were queues, not the fake queues of the stress tests, but real queuesâŚ
Drive to the pizza shop, order the pizza, wait for the pizza, drive home and âcool the queue is down to 115â queues.
We were a different player base, with different expectations, we simply took it better, cause it was part of the fun. Now expansions are downloaded in the background, and are a dime a dozen. This is a different experience and the current player base has different expectations. It is what it is.
The servers always had problems with going down and super long queue times. I imagine the stress to their server was pretty high. Itâs only necessary for the sake of their own servers and server cost.