why would someone be maimed at the notion at the same time, when you can do that in game?
For some people it’s straight-up narcissism. They believe they should get what they want, and that others should suffer for their enjoyment. Those people do exist. I find them disgusting, but they do exist.
Most everyone else didn’t choose it, however, Blizzard railroaded them into this and find themselves in the blast radius of what they think would constitute justice (the consistent use of the dismantling straw man in that sense is sometimes a tell). I can understand why they’d say that’s not fair, and I can agree with them - to an extent.
What has Blizzard done so far that you would say should have satisfied the NEs or Alliance players in general?
It just seems to me, you are dividing the player base of us vs them. Basically vilifying a subset of people without really addressing their concerns or issues.
Well, if it’s just so precious that they be able to choose, and not held to the option, then it just shouldn’t have been a choice. It seems a lot more like they’re upset with the burden of having the option, but want to shoot down anyone else who even suggests something against them. If it can’t make everyone happy with the options, but make one of the options making someone else unhappy at your expense, then the deed is done. There’s no reason to be so invested in their choice.
I mean, I appreciate that you think I have that much power on this forum. But anyone who knows me on here knows I don’t care about the alliance or their issues in general. I’m a Worgen fan first most and the horde holds a special place in my heart.
Not sure what you mean by power but you are participating in a conversation in a really dismissive and incendiary way.
And I find it interesting you didn’t bother answering my question so I don’t even understand why you hold that view. Instead, you just replied with something sarcastic, why participate at all in the conversation honestly? Is this something you find enjoyable?
Join conversations and then declare “I don’t care.”? Why?
It’s all tongue in cheek. It’s a joke. No Horde player seriously believes Alliance players are calling for disbandment, if they were we would certainly know about it on these forums, there may be one or two out there somewhere.
The reaction comes from hearing many of what Alliance players have wanted over the years, from territory to gold to blood and everything in between. So the joke is “why not just get rid of the Horde completely?”.
No Horde player is worried. For Blizzard to actually do something like that would be virtually suicide for the games health.
I mean, you’d be correct in calling it virtual suicide for the game’s health, but look at Teldrassil. What do you call that? Further, I’m not sure that your peers for the most part really do see it as a joke.
I agree destroying Teldrassil and Undercity was a bad move just to give motive to the player base to want to fight each other and only have the story whimper off at the end focusing on the most mysterious and powerful Old God we have ever seen and to defeat him more easily than a C’thun or Yogg.
And yes, I do think my fellow players do see the sarcasm.
This made me start to think about how the end bosses of expansions have been presented and what sort of help the player draws on in defeating those bosses. I’m only going to do expansion-end bosses here because a list of every raid boss, or even every raid tier’s boss, would probably get unwieldy.
In Vanilla, I guess you would count it as Kel’thuzad, who while a lich of great power and within a fortress of Scourge, is certainly in the realm of believable, especially opposed by 40 (!) people. So as far as I remember the players don’t receive any outside help and largely defeat Kel’thuzad on their own.
In Burning Crusade, as you mentioned, we take on Illidan, and though I think their contributions are downplayed somewhat, Akama and Maiev aid the players in defeating Illidan. Again, beating Illidan - especially with help - still feels believable. Even if you wanted to instead count Kil’jaeden here from the Sunwell, the players are helped by… something. (I never did this so my memory is fuzzy here.)
In Wrath, as you mentioned, the Lich King outright kills the players, and it effectively takes a double miracle to defeat Arthas - Tirion does his thing with the Light and shatters Frostmourne, and then Terenas Menethil revives the players to defeat Arthas. (This was honestly was one of my favorite moments, after the RP speech, where the rez confirmation box pops up but it says ‘Terenas Menethil wants to revive you’). So, the Lich King is a high-tier enemy for sure, but the players get a considerable amount of help as well.
In Cataclysm, we’re being aided by World Shaman Thrall and the Dragon Soul with the Aspects in tow. Though the final form of Deathwing was kind of lame, it’s hard to argue that the players were not receiving pretty massive amounts of aid to bring him down. So, while the degree of the world-ending threat grows, so too does the power that aids the player characters, which… I guess this works? Still, though, I feel like this is around the time that people started to complain about big lore NPCs finishing off bosses instead of players? I feel like that was a thing.
Mists of Pandaria was actually a little more scaled back in my opinion. Old God-empowered Garrosh is a fearsome foe, of course, but I think this goes a little bit back in the direction of ‘believable enemy to defeat’. I think it’s also worth noting that, to my knowledge, the players don’t receive any outside help for this encounter. (Correct me if I’m wrong - this one is the only other expansion-end boss I didn’t kill when it was current.)
In terms of whether or not our enemies are “believable” I think it’s Warlords of Draenor where the wheels start to come off the bus. Sure, we have the help of Yrel, Grom, and Khadgar for this fight, but we’re up against freaking Archimonde. I definitely think this fight was impacted by the content crunch that WoD is notorious for, and it also had that weird controversy over whether Archimonde died or not because of the different ending on Mythic difficulty.
Let me say that in Legion, I actually enjoyed the sense (in the beginning of the expansion) that the forces of Azeroth were calling in every favor they had, digging up every relic they could get their hands on, and throwing every kitchen sink they could find at the Legion just to stay even with them. In that sense, the ending battle against Argus, where the players require the help of the Pantheon itself to win (and die repeatedly in a mechanic I actually thought was neat) does kind of add up, since you are calling on some pretty extraordinary powers to win here. What makes much less sense is how you were able to go Argus, roll right through the Legion’s fortress, free the Pantheon and then have them help you. As a gameplay note, I actually really liked how at the entrance to the citadel, the Paraxis would periodically bombard players caught out in the open and (originally) killed the crap out of them, until whining caused the bombardment to be nerfed into a joke. The former felt way more appropriate for storming the Legion’s stronghold.
Battle for Azeroth, well… features the Azerite Kamehameha, and the hot-potato Xal’atath as well as Wrathion’s help and the legendary cloak. It actually was a nice touch that any player who engaged in combat with N’zoth’s carapace or N’zoth himself without the legendary cloak would be instantly mind controlled when the fight started. That said, I feel the “help” the player receives here is a little… scattershot? The Heart of Azeroth and the legendary cloak (and Wrathion himself) don’t have much backing them up, so while the players aren’t completely alone against N’zoth, it feels… I dunno, underwhelming?
This went on for a while, but the point I’m getting at is, at least in terms of end-of-expac bosses, there’s at least some sort of nod to the fact that the threats we face aren’t the sorts of things we can conquer by ourselves. Where this whole thing falls down is we’re only getting that powerful help at the very, very end, and that conveniently ignores all the extinction-tier threats we go through on the way to get there.
That’s just fundamentally untrue, I’ve had conversations in my some short 60 posts where I’ve been accused of much worse then just wanting the Horde ‘dismantled’.
You’re upset the Alliance want stuff for their faction? Even if my view was ‘we should kick the Horde’s booty so hard they die, and can’t login’ you could just say that’s not productive. It would be accurate, and fair.
But, telling someone who likes the Alliance, and wants something done because of Teldrassil, doesn’t mean they want the Horde to die, and not log in anymore. Because the joke is people don’t believe that is even an option…right?
I mean, if you’re depicting how monumentally stupid it would be to do something like that in an MMO? I think that’s a great representation of it.
My point to Maffu was - yes, they really are that dumb. So assuming that Blizzard wouldn’t do something because it’s a bad business decision is kind of a bad assumption. They’ll absolutely do it if they want it badly enough.
For it to be a joke, I’ve seen it fly right past laughter. It pretty much starts to become something a lot of the ‘jokesters’ don’t seem to be joking about. They’re taking it super seriously, and I dare say might be shedding actual tears about. Which I guess only makes sense when I think about cringy tattoos I’ve seen posted online of the game.
