How can we redeem/rebuild the Horde?

Lore Story Forum
1650

I wonder if Bwonsamdi ever thinks that when eating souls haha

4 Likes
1651
  1. Yay!
  2. It likely doesn’t happen anyway. Blizzard won’t do it. I personally like the symbolism, but whatever.
  3. That’s fine. It could even involve “saving the soul of Teldrassil” and having it live on in Ardenweald. Or not. RE: Sylvanas dying - I thought it was a requirement for most folks. I don’t personally care. Regardless, the Justice vs Vengeance narrative plays out well for Tyrande if she dispenses the Night Warrior power first (in my opinion).
  4. If Humans fans don’t agree, it just travels back into the, “Okay, so nothing changes on one side, but the Horde just loses even more.” The whole premise is there has to be some “loss” in the Alliance.
  5. Great.
  6. Forsaken fans are stuck with Calia Menethil or Lilian Voss as the seemingly only options. Calia is an awful idea. Voss needs work to be up there, but there’s literally no depth behind her either. Bolvar was a shot in the dark because it was a “quick and easy” way to add depth that wouldn’t take 5 expansions to build up.
  7. Nobody seems to mind this. Weird.
  8. Any Forsaken who says no replacing our lost capital with a giant necropolis that flies around isn’t a true Forsaken.
  9. See 4 - if the Alliance gets to decide they can’t lose anything, then there’s no reason to agree to giving up anything either. The Horde already got destroyed in BfA.
  10. I think they need more Worgen-centric leadership. I’ll let Micah overrule that if he wants Genn to stay.
  11. It’s supposed to be a portrayal of religious/moral absolutism. Yrel on AU Draenor led the Lightforged Draenei to exterminating the Mag’har (basically). And if you want, Turalyon sees how far the Army of the Light starts to go, he defies them, and ends up dying saving Alleria (and yeah, the Army of the Light would hate Void Elves). Heck, you can have Elune appear and smite the prime N’aaru for all I care (but then add An’she/Belore/whomever in some Lore).
  12. Super joking. Would never happen. Wish it would, but it won’t.

See this is where the problem becomes pretty clear:

Night Elves take Ashenvale.

Tyrande saves the Night Elf souls and doesn’t die.

Forsaken can gain neutral/contested ground over feral Scourge. Maybe even get a neutral NPC to join to provide depth.

But anything that starts to suggest the Alliance might do bad? No.

Not even Anduin being a DK and cast out from the Alliance.

Anything that might diminish the greatness of the Alliance and Night Elves? No.

Sorry, but that’s why every position you take ends up being a non-starter. Until you can move from that position everything else is just a wasted effort.

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1652

The trash taking itself out. Hit the bricks.
:smile:

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1653

So, a couple of points.

Regarding human fans - I agree that humanity needs to change and be on the back foot for a bit - but we are going to run into this problem of “is that actually what fans of that race want”? - which means that you’ve got to approach that question carefully. Do I think they should hold all this land in North EK? No. Do I think they should continue to occupy this standing of everyone’s angelic betters? No. Do I hate Anduin to the extent that I’d personally be fine with casting him off into Death Knight land so I don’t have to deal with him? Yes. But if I am going to object to weird people who don’t even like Night Elves proposing that all of this stuff should happen to them or that they should become this that or the other thing that fans of the race like myself would hate - then wouldn’t it be a bit hypocritical for me to do that for human fans? I think so - hence why I’ve got to punt to them. Same with other playable races - this is always a compromise, and you’ve got to get the feedback from the people who are actually invested.

But wait? Can’t we just ignore them and give them a crap experience? Well, no, you can’t. They pay $15 a month too, and they aren’t doing it to subsidize your content. You have to negotiate with them. You have to come to an agreement.

So, sorry - I can’t approve without their approval.

Regarding 11, I straight up think that you tried to give the Alliance some “how would you like it?” content in the most hyperbolic fashion possible - and this is another matter where I can’t follow you here. If you had me under a lie detector and asked “would you like the Night Elves to raze Orgrimmar as payback for Teldrassil”, I’d tell you yes. But I’d also tell you that I don’t think I should have that because that would just be saddling them with the same awful experience that I was saddled with - and I don’t think that should happen to anyone. I feel that it would be hypocritical as well to lay out why this is a bad story move, and then say three seconds later “oh, but only if it’s happening to me - I totally want the other side to have that happen to them”. I get a similar vibe from you on your issues with bullet 11.

The other issue with your scenario is its poor construction. I do not understand why these people are motivated to do these things - and maybe that was your point, but I don’t think it sets up a believable or satisfying conflict - and certainly not something that we can translate into a long term conflict to drive PVP engagement. If you’re just looking to axe Turalyon somewhere, I’m tempted to say “knock yourself out”, but then you’re throwing in Yrel, she wants to put Night Elves in a camp for some reason, and now Elune is both a Naaru and involved and on Yrel’s side? No. There’s way too much here in what looks like someone who has taken that villain bat into a china shop and is trying to cause as much carnage as possible - especially when you’re going into “hey, let’s take the cultural centerpiece of this race and raidboss it”.

I get that Blizzard did a lot of that to the Horde, don’t misunderstand me, but I thought the point of this was to fix problems, rather than creating new ones? BFA was a bad expansion. We shouldn’t be trying to replicate it.

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1654

Pat head Calm down.

1655

Has the trash ever taken itself out for you? It’s exciting. Do you like head pats, because you’re a dog?

1656

Head pat The hostility is adorable dear

1657

If you didn’t like it, I don’t think you’d be wanting to take yourself out baby. :wink:

1658

head pat Keep up the hostility baby. Someone will take you serious eventually.

1659

It must be adorable enough for you. Otherwise I’d hate to see you out on the curb like that baby.

1660

Shrug Okay.

1661

I would ignore Micah, he is one of the less contributing posters, yes even worse than me. I do miss NEFPA though, like alot.

But I understand their reasons for quitting the game.

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1662

I knew you’d love me. Always did. Truck runs on Tuesdays.

1663

My fellow Hordies. Hear me out!

I know we were involved in a war we didn’t want to be in, Sylvanas was that friend in a bar that starts a brawl then slips out the backdoor while we face the consequences. We’ve been villain batted, demonized over and over, again and again.

We are at the mercy of Blizzard writing and of all the players to antagonize it just had to be Night Elves, the most rabid of them all. They want justice, the want revenge, they want their home back while stomping on Horde heads.

I say lets give it to them. It’s not going to effect the Horde that much is it? The Horde is already demoralized, the Horde always lose in faction wars, the Horde seems to always be the villains with nothing learnt from our defeats.

How much lower can we get besides disbandment?

Lets have a patch where the Kaldorei beat up on the Horde, make our fellow Night Elf players feel better a little. Maybe they can plant a seed at the end of it? Then the Horde that survive yet another defeat can hang their heads in shame and sulk off to Orgrimmar, why? Because that’s what we do, we’re the punching bags of the game becuase we can take it, there’s nothing we can do to appease the Alliance aside from total surrender and conversion to Alliance ideology.

Lets give Night Elves and The Alliance a win to put The Horde in it’s place once and for all. Then The Horde can play back up for Alliance if they even need it. Until the moment Alliance calls for us to be their pawns thrown into the meatgrinder we can all fish around Kalimdor becoming the greatest fishing nation on Azeroth! Until the Tuskarr get jealous of that claim and we begin the Great Fish War!

Yes, this post was /s :smirk:

12 Likes
1664

Much obliged for clearing that up. The P is what always got me scratching my head.

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1665

100% of the posts in this thread is about as contributing to the topic as this post is :slight_smile:

1666

Why don’t Blizzard make it where only the TRUE Horde players can have their accounts locked, and you can only be a naked, one legged Mecha-Gnome who’s stuck at level 1? They could be like perpetually about to drown in water, but the only way you could get that account lock is by being a true Horde player. Make the requirement like, full Horde Rep with the races. 400+ hours standing around in Org doing nothing. That should get the true Horde from this thread in, and they could keep their pride.

2 Likes
1667

Thrall’s Horde is literally made up of people from the Old Horde.

I have to wonder the mindset of people who think this way, that being a muderer is any way compareable to accidently leading another murderer somewhere in an attempt to escape. Draenei crash landed remember.

99% of the Orcs who came to Azeroth commited murder is some way.

What consequences? I’m talking about Alliance imposed consequences btw, if the Horde suffers because of actions THEY made it doesn’t count.

I’m sorry mind explaining how?

Tell me, those Blood Elves killed at Silvermoon, are they currently suffering in the Maw? No? Then they don’t trump the NE’s.

1668

Hey, I’ll sign off on it. I rather like the image of plain humans interacting with some of the more bizarre elements of other races.

It’s why I head canon that farmer in Stormwind is pals with the ancient that survived Teldrassil. Just imagining so plain farmer type only ever hearing of them, then having one stomp into his backyard to recover is hilarious and intriguing.

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1669

Thrall’s Horde was literally led by someone who was an infant during the time of the Old Horde.

There was nothing “accidental” about the draenei keeping to themselves after they had crash-landed.

“Oops, we forgot to mention we’re on the run from an army of planet-devouring demons! Guess it’s technically our fault the Legion attacked Draenor. Uhh, sorry?”

You mean while under the influence of mind-controlling demons?
Also, nice dodge on the “race vs. individual” argument.

So it “doesn’t count” that the orcs suffered for decades in Blackmoore’s internment camps? Pretty sure those were imposed on them by the Alliance.

4 Likes