I thought you didn’t like to get into “who had/has it worse” discussions.
I think this is key, because they aren’t wrong. She really was the center of their culture from what we were shown. I mean, heck “Dark Lady watch over you” is a common farewell. Most aspects of their lives were tied to her in some shape or form. Ripping that out with no plan damaged their core fantasy and left a lot of question marks that Blizzard has shown little care in following up on.
As a side note, one aspect the Forsaken have carried fairly consistently is the concept of vengeance on those who have wronged them. Which is odd, as they tend to get neglected when that vengeance actually matters ALA Arthas and soon to be Sylvanas.
Voss is certainly one of, if not the strongest, picks to replace Sylvanas as she is a good representation of the Forsaken experience and their values. However, Blizz declined to explain how she came to actually join the Forsaken ranks and how she rose to a place of such prominence. She just… did. Until BFA Lilian had not interacted with the Forsaken since Cata Tirisfal. Her taking the reins, even in a temporary capacity, was just jarring. Especially when Blizz spent all that time building up Natty Blight, seeding his discontent with Sylvanas’s actions before just tossing all that aside to World Boss him.
That’s the real stinger.
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And that has absolutely nothing to do with what the Forsaken did during vanila, wotlk and cata. Nohing at all. /s
I’m not sure how. All it really introduced is the idea that she’s come to care for the plight of the Undead since she’s had time to get out of her terrible teens “Necromancer Killer” phase. She outright states she was conscripted by force in BfA, and her few resurrections were either under that same threat of violence … or by request of the soon-to-be departed themselves. She even does take good care of both Stone and Zelling.
Frankly, thematically, Voss has always had the makings to become a great Forsaken Rep. One totally unmarred by the Sylvie cult of personality that slowly consumed their Race. The issue is, the work to get her to that point naturally was never invested. And what little we did get was haphazard. Tho, with the right story direction and TLC she would make for a fantastic Forsaken Leader. Shame that she’s being built up as a Steward of Gondor to “I’m going to gentrify these slums” Menethil and her merry band of clean Undead.
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I will get into discussions that have to do with the precise manner in which the narrative screwed over the various sides - and why our concerns mostly have to do with the feeling of being defeated, and why the Horde’s concerns mostly have to do with being written as monsters.
That helps us to understand the problem for what it is, rather than holding up the idea that problems aren’t problems because a developer one day tweeted something, or offhandedly mentioned something in a book.
By the way I want to apologize for my post being so scattered. I missed a lot of replies and probably shouldn’t have put everything in one chunk of text. Sorry about that.
Well, don’t feel TOO bad about that. The people who actually get paid to to do it aren’t succeeding either.
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Fair enough.
To piggyback on the idea of vengeance that Azighan mentioned - I see a possibility in that. The Alliance has a lot of mission table content in Lordaeron - maybe we depict that. Maybe we show Alliance soldiers adopting some downright Scarlet tactics. Maybe we rewrite forsaken questing content in that area as expelling these invaders, stopping their abuses, making their people safe again, and then adopting a stance that they’re not going to apologize for protecting their people, and they will avenge them by whatever means necessary.
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As long as it supports your position that visual is more impactful than text and is therefore more important or carries more weight, right?
My position backed by the findings that I have linked to multiple times.
“Show don’t tell” is in no way controversial. Nor is the conclusion that visual information is far and away more memorable and impactful than text.
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All of this is even represented by processes. How the Horde won - prepatch. How she repented - the Sarfang chain. Sylvanas’ departure cutscene, the siege of Orgrimmar is also there.
The night elves are dead … and then what? How did they win? Regularly losing the Darkshore front to the Horde?
@Kyalin
But their history is more or less a whole. There is a plot, development, end. They will not have the feeling that they have missed something, only that they have been deceived.
He meant it, didn’t he? Something that requires … I don’t know. I guess I just wanted to attack him.
Did I mention you?
I can answer that one.
The developers and the characters never waste time to tell us that there is no “good” faction and no “evil” faction, but what they put on screen often directly contradicts this - and the results as to what the playerbase now believes have been predictable.
Edit: @ Shernish RE:
They will not have the feeling that they have missed something, only that they have been deceived.
Yes, I feel that they have been deceived, and they probably feel as though they’ve been deceived, and that is a powerful feeling - one that they’re right to be upset about.
Please explain to me than why Cairne’s death is more impactful, to myself and others, than Varian’s.
Because he’s yours. Because it was Garrosh’s fall. Because because of this, the hated Bane began to rule. But on the list of the most memorable deaths of Warcraft … You can hardly name it first.
To you or to players in general? Because as we discussed previously, putting Cairne’s death in a book was criminal - and I don’t think that anyone sane could argue that it was presented in a more memorable way that stuck with more players than did the death that was foreshadowed in one cinematic, shown in another, agonized over in three subsequent cinematics, and then given its entire district in one of the game’s two developer-anointed faction hub cities.
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Oh,I see.
Please tell me who should be #1 on my list of most memorable deaths.
Go ahead.
Let me ask you about this in a month. Now you are thinking of Cairne.
I mean… If it ain’t Kingslayer Orkus you’re wrong. Just that easy.
R.I.P Our hero.
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I mean, frankly?
Yeah - that was presented far better than the death of the Taurens’ iconic Warcraft 3 leader.
Let that sink in.
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Orkus went out like such a hero. I remember when I was still playing my forsaken hunter and I did that quest It was one of the best implemented horde side at the time 
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