I mean, I don’t think that deserts are a thing to be “fixed”, and I’m not sure what druids can do to create annual rainfall that isn’t there without altering weather patterns on a permanent basis, which seems like something that I wouldn’t expect them to do. Again though, they’ve got this great freshwater river than could have been used, and in fact was used for irrigation. My argument is that Thrall didn’t irrigate it - he didn’t build the farming infrastructure, thereby creating a crisis that Garrosh had to fix.
I said this back then too, but regarding Thrall and Garrosh. Garrosh could make an argument rather similar to this regarding his predecessor.
The irony that Obama got into the Whitehouse and largely backed most of those very same policies that continue to this day bleed the Middle Class. And “irrigation” only goes so far depending on the types of soil they are dealing with in Durotar. Or what sort of temperatures. We don’t know the annual water table there. The annual rainfall. Or whether or not it even has a natural flood season (which is the best for river based agriculture). And yes, there is a cultural issue here as well with none of these groups having histories of Agriculture. Shame the Drakkari were eradicated before we could learn from them. They had an absolutely killer Agricultural and Irrigation system. But its all plagued now.
Long story short. Surviving in Durotar and the Barrens is likely to be a very cruel and difficult thing, made only slightly better with a LOT of Hard Work. UNLESS the Horde decides to create something like a Southern Kali Throne of the Elements to start altering the natural environment themselves. To make those lands more prosperous; on top of all that hard work. Which … admittedly is one of the stories I would like tied into the MU Orc’s final migration from the doomed world of Outlands.
I mean, if Blizzard turns up and says that there’s an issue with those items, I’m happy to entertain a discussion on it. For now, however, Garrosh’s short story establishes that under Thrall’s tenure, farming infrastructure was so light that they needed to rely on trade. Baine’s short story established that Garrosh had corrected this, bringing up that the Southfury, while polluted, was still fine to water the crops. New farms appeared in Durotar in Cataclysm, showcasing Garrosh’s efforts to improve that farming structure. I’m going to nip this one in the bud as well - it’s not as though Orcs don’t know how to farm. As early as Warcraft I it was established that they were aware of how.
Edit: One item on temperatures and rainfall - not terribly relevant when we’re dealing with a river, like many other rivers, is fed from snowpack.
So, the matter again is that Thrall left Garrosh holding the bag, not just economically, but from a foreign policy standpoint as well. He let the Warsong do their thing in Ashenvale for example rather than respecting the sovereignty of the Night Elves - and bear in mind in Warcraft 3, Tyrande was blaming Humans and Orcs equally for Cenarius’s death (Mission 4 pre-cinematic) - diplomatically then, it makes sense that whichever side managed to either woo them or annoy them the least got their allegiance. Supporting an invasion is a pretty good way to lose that race. Further, before Thrall left, he was nursing an international crisis that he was waffling on dealing with because he was afraid that he was losing legitimacy, then instead of solving it, he drops the problem in Garrosh’s lap.
So, whatever issues we might raise with the former president, his analogy I think would work here. Thrall drove the Horde into a ditch, and then left Garrosh to pick up the mess. He says as much in WoD, and he was absolutely right.
Edit: While we’re on the subject - fan art of “George W(orld) Shaman” and “Barack Hellscream” is something we need right now.
I actually agree on this. Thrall … essentially drove his people into a desert, built a city and government based on a fantasy he created from his cultural history, and then just kind of sat on his hands for a while. Like, truly, considering his powers as the World Shaman one could only imagine what he could have done for his people in Durotar leading the Earthen Ring. But … instead he dicked off for years after Cata, and … made a Farm on a doomed world? And left Garrosh with one hell of a bill.
Sigh … like I said before. SLs giving personal character arcs for both Thrall and Baine to start dealing with their character deficits would be super beneficial. I do think the current Horde needs more space on Kali. But Stonetalon south would give us that space, and plenty of places to work our butts off to make our own. But we gotta have the leadership that the Horde People need to even consider doing that.
I mean, I disagree that Thrall’s movement to the desert was the issue - but the sitting on his hands part? Yeah, that’s where I take issue with the guy, and if we want to be brutally honest about it? If Thrall didn’t do that? If he put even the modicum of effort that a reasonable person would expect from a head of state? Azeroth would have avoided multiple wars, probably including BFA.
Or just not have given into Nepotism and let Cairne lead. Clearly Cairne felt his own people’s situation was stable enough to be open to leading the Horde. Tho, I get Vol’jin’s issues not wanting to step in right away as the Darkspears situation has always been in really bad shape until very, VERY recently. God damnit, Warchief Cairne could have done wonders. Thrall coming back “in a few months” like he promised could have done wonders. Thrall coming back when Jaina begged him to could have done wonders.
He has serious character deficits to deal with even now IF he truly is meant to take the reins as the MU Orc leader again. Baine also has many deficits to deal with to attain his father’s balance. Vol’jin just needs a resolution to his Arc in SLs, and have it tied into his father’s prophecy for him. If we get something for Calia that’s fine, but I NEED these 3 to get some serious work put into them by the end of this expac. They need to be the leader their people need them to be BEFORE they return from the lands of the dead.
I mean, she could just be a fan of Civ V Alexander the Great. Those Hoplites do last quite a while with no maintenance lol! That being said, Tyrande, Maive, Shandris, SOMEONE build a Feathermoon type Stronghold right into where the Warsong Lumber Camp is. If you cut what few holdings you have left in Stonetalon and close that Goblin Made gap … I don’t think a damned thing could ever hope to try to invade Ashenvale again with a decent fortification built at that location. Its an absurd central pivot point IF you ensure the only access point into the most important NE territory is the from the East.
The east isn’t even a good access point. There’s this massive river valley that’s pretty easily defensible, and has a single, narrow, lonely bridge connecting one side to the other.
If Garrosh can drop a mana-bomb on Theramore, geography means jack all.
Because in a game with gigantic airships, goblin zeppelins, and dimension-hopping star cruisers, if what Kaldorei remain don’t have a %$&# ton of AA defenses set up, they’re doing something wrong at this point.
Right, that’s my point. Stonetalon does not retain a lot of NE Holdings anymore, and requires you to hold both that Goblin made access point AND East of the Grimtotem territories. If you’re trying to secure it from the North. However, if you cut that investment, destroy that Goblin made access point, and place a sizable garrison at that Eastern local … the River and Mountains will compliment it. Ensuring further invasion is infinitely more suicidal than it was before. On top of just pure consolidation of troops into key positions.
The funny thing is - even in the modern world, geography still counts for a ton. It doesn’t matter that we can fly or wipe ourselves off of the planet - geopolitical strategists still exist, and still have a lot of pertinent things to say.
Now excuse me while I go to binge-listen to Peter Zeihan again.
For Alliance players the story would be about revenge, justice etc…
What for Horde players? Shame? Watch your faction be thinned out? Trials are held, some go to Alliance prison, some executed. Horde can’t go into certain territories perhaps? Maybe Horde need to give reparations to Alliance that the Horde cannot afford?
Well, for the same reason that Blizzard shouldn’t have dismantled the Night Elves - because this game is supposed to be fun.
That being said, the Alliance, especially certain parts of the Alliance, needs to dish out some onscreen victories so that we can get our confidence back. But that also has to be a piece of a larger puzzle that, yes, must incorporate fixing the Horde’s issues as well.
The Alliance shouldn’t get everything they demand. Such would be bad for the game. One faction should never be allowed to “defeat” another faction, or a large portion of a faction in the way that the Horde was allowed to do to the Western Alliance at the beginning of BFA. That content just demotivates people.
I would like to guide you towards thinking that the Alliance can be given strong onscreen victories while we also show the Horde holding the line and defending the things that they find important. But obviously we wouldn’t be achieving that goal if we simply told huge swaths of the playerbase to pound sand - like was done at the beginning of BFA.
